SUBJECTS: UN Ocean Conference, blue carbon, gas supply, the State of the Environment report


PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: The Federal Government’s pledge to put the environment front and centre in policy is being welcomed by the international community as a sign of progress. The new Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek received a stand ovation at the UN Oceans Conference in Lisbon where she signed on to agreement on blue carbon and reducing ocean plastic. But managing the significant challenges and a competing interests of the government’s environmental agenda will be significantly harder.


I spoke to Tanya Plibersek a short time ago. Tanya Plibersek, welcome to Breakfast.


TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: It’s great to be with you.


KARVELAS: You’ve told this conference that Australia is willing to take a global leadership role on environmental issues. What does that mean in practical terms? What kind of example do we have to set?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: This conference on oceans has been a really good opportunity to talk again with the international community about what matters in the environment. And the reception that Australia has got has been fantastic. The people what we’re talking to are just delighted that Australia has a higher ambition on climate change, that we’ve actually upped our ambition and we’re prepared to legislate our new targets. The fact that we’re working in partnership with Indigenous Australians on environmental management has been incredibly well received as well. So, talking about our Indigenous rangers programs and doubling the number of Indigenous rangers has been very well received.


And I have to say, a lot of the meetings I’ve had, particularly with Pacific nations, the focus on the Pacific issues like blue carbon, on plastics pollution in the oceans, overfishing, all of these have been really important for our Pacific community, and they’re areas where Australia has traditionally cooperated really well with Pacific partners. And we want to see that cooperation go to the next level.


KARVELAS: Minister, Australia’s formally endorsed a blue carbon initiative to restore mangroves, salt marshes and sea grasses which store carbon. And you’re announcing five new blue carbon projects later this week. What areas are you focusing on, and what kind of scale are you talking about?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, blue carbon is really exciting. So, for those of your listeners who don’t really know what I’m talking about, we’re talking about the sort of plants that grow in the ocean, like sea grasses, mangroves, tidal salt marshes. These are really great at sucking carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, trapping it in plants and keeping it there. And they have this incredible additional benefit of improving biodiversity, improving water quality as it’s running off land back into the ocean.


So, we’re really lucky in Australia – we’re home to about 12 per cent of the world’s blue carbon ecosystems. And they have this great carbon pollution reduction benefit and this additional biodiversity benefit. And what we’re doing is working with partners, particularly in the Pacific, to make sure that they’re able to include some of their blue carbon in their own fight against carbon pollution.


KARVELAS: Australia will sign up to the new plastics economy global commitment before the end of 2022, and this is about reducing our plastic waste. What are our obligations under this agreement, and how well is it working right now?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We are going to sign up to this new plastics economy global commitment before the end of this year. And it does really emphasise reducing particularly harmful types of plastics, getting rid of single-use plastics wherever we can, making sure that we’re recycling. In fact, Australia has a pretty ambitious target already of 100 per cent of packaging being reusable, recyclable or compostable by 2025. At the moment we are really not on track to meet that. So, we really need to domestically get much better at using some of the recycling technology, the new innovation that people are doing, like the University of Technology in my electorate. They’re experimenting with making different type of plastic out of algae. I mean, really terrific science.


We’ve banned the export of plastics waste, so we’ve got a really strong incentive to do more recycling here in Australia. And we haven’t quite got our systems as strong as they need to be yet. So, we need to work across three levels of government – with councils, with state governments, with the federal government – to really drive the recycling industry here in Australia.


KARVELAS: If you’re just tuning in, the new Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek is our guest here on Radio National Breakfast. Minister, you want Australia to be a global leader on ocean protection and you say we can’t fix the oceans without addressing climate change. How do you reconcile that view with Labor’s support for major new gas projects, including the development of the Beetaloo Basin?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We’ve got to come to an accommodation. We absolutely know that we need a strong and growing economy and the jobs that come with that. But we also need stronger environmental protections. And I’m not going to start commenting on individual projects, but I will say this: we are capable as a nation of having a strong, growing economy and stronger environmental protections. And as Environment Minister I’m determined to deliver that. And I’m determined to judge each project that comes before me on the evidence that’s before me.


KARVELAS: The Australian Conservation Foundation is taking legal action against Woodside’s $16 billion Scarborough gas project over the carbon emissions it would generate. What happens if they win?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Obviously I can’t comment on it because it’s a case that’s before the courts at the moment. But, like I say, all I can do as Environment Minister is assess any project in the usual way – you know, using our environmental laws. And I would do that on the merits of any case that comes before me. I’m not going to start commenting on individual cases, and I particularly can’t comment on that one because it’s before the courts.


KARVELAS: Next month you’ll release the five-yearly State of the Environment Report that the Morrison government received last December, but it wasn’t made public. But I know you’ve seen it. How bad is it?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, it’s not great. I mean, I’ll release the report on the 19th of July at the Press Club. I’m working my way through it at the moment. And there’s a reason that the Morrison government didn’t want to release this report before the election – it tells a story of a decade of neglect of the environment. And it’s a repeat alarming picture, frankly.


KARVELAS: Climate protestors who shut down the Sydney Harbour Tunnel yesterday face two-year jail or fines of up to $22,000 under tough new laws introduced by the New South Wales Government. Are those penalties too heavy-handed?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I’m not going to comment without knowing more specifics about what people were doing. But I would say this: I support the right to protest. I think people need to protest within the bounds of the law. I understand that people feel very strongly about climate change. So do I. And so does the new government. That’s why we’re taking a more ambitious approach. But it is important that people respect the law.


KARVELAS: Yeah, there is this kind of concept of an authorised protest, and many protestors are taking issue with that, minister. Isn't the right to protest an absolute right? This idea that, you know, you get permission is the one that’s being contested at the moment.


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, Patricia, I’ve been part of organising a lot of rallies in my life and it was always pretty standard practice for us to negotiate with the police the route of the march and, you know, making sure that people are safe while they’re protesting. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to make sure that people are safe and protesting within the law. I understand people feel strongly, but you’ve also got to – you’ve got a right to make your views publicly known. You don’t have a right to break the law while you’re doing it.


KARVELAS: Finally, abortion we know has become a big issue around the world after the US Supreme Court overturned Roe versus Wade. Now we’re having our own discussion about abortion rights in Australia. Abortion is essentially legal in Australia, but it’s a path – patchwork, really, of state laws. It’s not publicly funded. Labor took Medicare-funded abortion to the polls in 2019 when you were the Deputy Leader. Should you revisit that concept now in government?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think you need to have a holistic view of women’s reproductive health, and it starts with better seconds education, it starts with young people knowing that they can say no to sex. It goes on to much better advice and availability of contraceptives, including long-acting reversible contraceptives. We’re unusual as a country in the quite low rates of the use of that type of contraceptive. And, of course, it involves access to safe, affordable, legal abortion when necessary. And as Health Minister I put RU486 on to the Pharmaceutical Benefits list so that medical terminations at least would be more affordable when necessary. I think it’s important that state health ministers and our Commonwealth Health Minister continue to have conversations about we can best provide that full suite of reproductive health for Australian women.


KARVELAS: Is it the moment now that we’re looking at our own country in the wake of this decision that we need to be having that discussion of making abortion more easily accessible and affordable?


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: What we know, Patricia, is that if you make abortion illegal or too expensive for women to access, it doesn’t stop them having abortions; it just pushes them into unsafe, illegal, expensive terminations.


KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us, Minister.


MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Thank you.


KARVELAS: And that’s the Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek. You’re listening to ABC RN Breakfast. It’s quarter to 8.