THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO WITH FRAN KELLY AND RAFAEL EPSTEIN
SUNDAY, 15 OCTOBER 2023
SUBJECTS: THE VOICE REFERENDUM, HAMAS-ISRAEL CONFLICT.
FRAN KELLY, HOST: Last night when he stood after this defeat, Anthony Albanese said "This moment of disagreement will not define us and not divide us. We are not yes voters or no voters. We are Australians." I'm joined now by Federal Environment Minister and Labor MP for the seat of Sydney, Tanya Plibersek. Tanya Plibersek, thanks very much for joining us.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Good morning, Fran.
KELLY: How do you feel after this resounding defeat?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I definitely feel sad, Fran. I was with my constituents last night at the Erskineville Bowling Club and we had a lot of Indigenous leaders there who've been fighting for recognition and reconciliation, not just for six months or a couple of years, but for decades. And it was a sad evening for them. And in my electorate, I think there are a lot of people today who are feeling disappointed with the result.
But I think there are some silver linings as well, including the fact that across Australia, 60,000 people signed up to volunteer for the Yes campaign. In my electorate, it was 1300 people out there door knocking and letterboxing and having conversations about the referendum. And in some respects, I think it has brought my electorate closer together. Certainly that was the feeling last night, there were a lot of people comforting each other last night in a very positive way.
KELLY: There's a lot of, as you mentioned there, a lot of yes voters in your electorate. I think it had one of the highest yes votes in the country. What would you say, though, to the people who voted "No"?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think the many people voted "No" in this referendum to this question in the referendum, they didn't vote "No" -
KELLY: Was it the wrong question, then?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: No. I just want to make the point that I don't believe people were voting no to closing the gap or voting no to recognition. I think we need to take a little bit of time to consider the results as they've come in. And I think it's a mistake to start doing any sort of post-mortem too quickly after a result like this. We are even still counting in many places, so we need a bit of time to consider and think about what this result means.
I think there are some fundamentals that remain, though. We need to continue to work as Australians to close the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. The statistics that we all know are completely unacceptable. And I think even Peter Dutton would say that the life expectancy gap, the education and employment gap are unacceptable. We need to work out how we work together as Australians to address those issues.
KELLY: Yesterday, you were urging people to vote "Yes" for reconciliation. The country voted "No" resoundingly. What does this mean for reconciliation?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Like I say, Fran, I do think it's important not to jump into detailed analysis too quickly after a result like this. We need to take some time to think it through. But this process didn't start with the election of the Labor government a year and a half ago. I mean, the fight for reconciliation has been going - Peter Costello walked across Sydney Harbour Bridge, John Howard tried to put recognition into our constitution, said that he wanted constitutional recognition of our First Nations Australians. These issues have been with us for some time, and have been traditionally bipartisan -
KELLY: That's true but is this a setback, I mean, if you look at - I think it feels First Nations people, some we've heard from, they say they feel more rejected than ever before. In hindsight, might we have been better off without this referendum if it was going to be so out of step with what the Australian people were going to accept?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think it was the right thing to do, to accept the work that went into the Uluru Statement from the Heart, started under the previous government, the coalition government. It had been going for years. Those local meetings that culminated in the meeting in Uluru and the request for voice, treaty and truth. That started a long time ago, and we made a commitment as a party, the Prime Minister made a very clear commitment that he would put that question to the Australian people, and he did that. He was right to keep his word, and that's him, that's the Prime Minister. If he makes a commitment, he'll keep his word.
KELLY: What went wrong then?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think referendums are very hard to win, and they're particularly hard to win when you don't have bipartisan support. That's no secret. We've known that all the way through this campaign. And yes, voters said no to this referendum. I don't believe they said no to closing the gap. Millions of Australians did vote yes. And I think we need to work out how we continue the positive momentum of this campaign when it comes to closing the gap, when it comes to reducing disadvantage in this country, when it comes to recognising that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians have been here for 65,000 years, and they have a special place.
KELLY: That's the number one priority, isn't it? To close the gap? What will the government do now, is there a plan B to work out a way to try and do better than we have there to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah well Fran,, it's Sunday morning after referendum on a Saturday.
KELLY: I'm sure the Government’s been thinking about it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We’ve had the result out on Saturday night. And I think it is really important to take some time to think about next steps. But what I can tell you for sure is that our commitment as a Labor government to reduce the gap will never change. We do not accept that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians should die before non-Indigenous Australians, should have fewer opportunities in education or employment, have maternal health that is worse than non-Indigenous Australians. Of course we need to close those gaps and we'll always work to do that. And I have to say, Fran, I believe a lot of people who voted "No" yesterday, also share that objective. And the important thing for us as Australians now is to come together to find the way forward that has that outcome.
RAFAEL EPSTEIN, HOST: Tanya Plibersek is who you're listening to, Environment Minister, part of Anthony Albanese's government. Of course, we will get back to your calls. Fran Kelly and myself, Raf Epstein, with you across the country. Tanya Plibersek, a few other issues to cover. Firstly, a very political one. Does it mean the Prime Minister can't successfully prosecute a complicated political argument?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Raf, absolutely not. I mean, this was a tough campaign. It is always difficult to win a referendum, even when you've got bipartisan support. It's not easy. When you don't have bipartisan support, it's particularly difficult. And the Prime Minister threw everything he had at this. He was out there every day campaigning. He's been all over the country, particularly in the last week, trying to convince people about the safe change that this represented, how important this was for First Nations Australians to have a voice, to have a say about their own future. He gave it his all.
EPSTEIN: And just if we can turn our attention to the Middle East, Tanya Plibersek, do you know the reason those repatriation flights from Tel Aviv, do you know why they were cancelled?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I know that the situation on the ground is challenging and it's in many respects deteriorating rapidly. The flights have been cancelled by Qantas and the charter operator obviously, for safety reasons.
We're moving heaven and earth to get Australians who want to leave Israel or the occupied Palestinian territories back home to Australia. If Australians haven't registered with the Department of Foreign Affairs crisis line, they should do that by calling 61 2 6261 3305, and take the first opportunity. If they want to leave, they should take the first opportunity they have to leave. We're absolutely assessing what more we can do. We're examining every option. We really want to work to get Australians who want to leave, out safely.
EPSTEIN: Do you know if you can help Australians get out of Gaza into somewhere like Egypt? Do you know if that's possible?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I know that the Foreign Minister said yesterday she had been in regular contact with the Israeli ambassador here in Australia and the Egyptian ambassador here in Australia. We are obviously doing whatever we can to help Australians who are in Gaza leave safely. And that applies to Australian citizens who are in Israel, to Australian citizens who are in Gaza. We want to get them home safely.
EPSTEIN: Any advice for people going to a protest or a vigil today? I know there's a big one in Sydney.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, we are all concerned for civilians. We are concerned for civilians of Israel who have been monstrously attacked by Hamas. We are concerned for civilians in Gaza. It is a very dangerous situation. We know that so many Palestinians living in Gaza are young, and as a government, we absolutely have concerns for civilians, no matter where they are, in Israel or in Gaza.
I don't know that protesting is the - I don't think that protesting is the best way to show that concern. And what we saw at protests during the week were the infiltration by revolting anti-Semitic elements who were chanting the most disgusting things. Don't go. Don't be associated with that sort of behaviour, would be my message.
EPSTEIN: Tanya Plibersek, thank you for your time.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Thank you.
END
