THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
AM AGENDA WITH LAURA JAYES
THURSDAY 26 SEPTEMBER 2024
SUBJECTS: NEGATIVE GEARING, HOUSING POLICY, ENVIRONMENT LAWS.
LAURA JAYES, HOST: We're once again having this conversation around negative gearing. Economists believe that things need to be done around negative gearing, but would it raise enough revenue if you limited the number of houses that you could negatively gear? This has been just around the political fringes for many, many years now. It was certainly a feature of the 2019 election campaign.
Tanya Plibersek will remember that well. She is the Environment Minister and joins me once again. Negative gearing. Where is this Government going to go with this? Should it be on the table, and would you need to seek a mandate to change anything?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Well, we're not planning to make any changes to negative gearing, but we do have a very comprehensive housing agenda because we know we need to build more houses in Australia.
We're helping people afford their rent, we've seen the biggest increase in Commonwealth Rent Assistance in many generations, we're seeing more homes built, specifically to rent, we've just announced the first 14,000 new homes in our Housing Australia Future Fund building program.
We want to help people into home ownership, we've already got a program out there that means that people can get into a home with as little as five per cent deposit, we want to do shared equity as well. Unbelievably the Greens, the Liberals, the Nationals are teaming up to stop that.
So, we need to build more, we need to help people who are renting, we need to help people into home ownership, and the real key to this is housing stock, and that's where our focus is.
JAYES: And negatively gearing, tinkering with that right now would just be too risky, because the main game is building more homes. Is that a fair assessment?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we're absolutely focused on increasing housing supply, and we've also of course reduced the number of people coming into Australia with our caps on student numbers to take a little bit of immediate pressure off the housing market as well.
But you know, Laura, we're not going to get on top of this unless we are building more homes, and for a decade under the Liberals and Nationals we simply weren't keeping up with demand for housing, and we need to change that.
When it comes to changes to tax policy, we're not considering any of those changes at the moment, and you know, it is really quite a distraction. Right now, in the Senate the shared equity scheme that would help 40,000 Australians into a home of their own is being blocked by the Greens and the Liberals and the Nationals.
So, I understand that they want to talk about anything else, but there is help available for Australians right now that's being blocked by the Senate. Why don't we focus on that?
JAYES: Yeah. When you say it's a distraction, is that as much a message to some on the Labor backbench who do want to see some changes to negative gearing eventually can see the argument?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we've already made enormous differences with things like our big boost to Commonwealth Rent Assistance, working with the States and Territories to prevent no grounds evictions, a range of different things that we've already done. We've got more help available. It's being blocked by the Senate. I think it would be really good if we focused on the thing that is on the table right now.
It's incredible that the Greens are actually helping to block this, because shared equity is part of their policy. They've suggested it in the past, and once again, they're saying, "Oh, it's not exactly what we want, we haven't designed it exactly". You know, they want all these other things added to it, including tax changes, and because we're not doing that, they're prepared to block the shared equity scheme that they would otherwise be supportive of.
I think Australians are getting really tired of these kinds of blocking moves just because the Greens, the Nationals, the Liberals are teaming up together to prevent progress.
JAYES: And Build-to-Rent, I mean the Greens are concerned that developers would be involved in that. If there's not developers, who would they expect to build some of these homes, do you think?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I guess they're expecting the commune to build them. I don't know who they think will build full private sector, you know, Build to Rent projects if it doesn't involve developers.
I mean, look, this is the problem with the Greens’ economic policy. I mean it really is fantasy. They don't want developers involved in building large multi unit dwellings, they're saying they want the Government to start intervening in the Reserve Bank setting interest rates again. I don't understand where they're getting their economic advice but, thank goodness we're not listening to them because some of these suggestions would be absolutely catastrophic.
JAYES: Well, thank goodness. But also, you know, the Greens are on the far-left flank of Labor. We're looking at the polls thinking, well, it could be a hung Parliament, the Greens could win more seats at the next election. How would you I mean you've been in politics, Parliament for a very long time, not that I'm saying you're old, but you've seen some things and working with the Greens is, you know, has always been, part of the job, but given, you know, what we've just discussed about the economic policy and some of the more well, they're on the extremities now, how does Labor deal with the Greens going forward?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we win a majority. We make sure that we work as hard as we can going into the next election, so we don't have a hung Parliament. And I would say this to progressive voters, if you actually want to see progress, vote for the Labor Party that can actually deliver it.
I mean all of these fantasy things that are distractions and delays that actually prevent progress, I think the climate wars are a really good example of this, right. The Greens teamed up with the Liberals and Nationals to prevent the carbon pollution reduction scheme, 80 million extra tonnes of carbon dioxide entered our atmosphere because of that.
I would say if you really want to see progress you have to vote for a majority Labor Government so that we can make that change in a sensible way that doesn't smash the economy, that actually supports economic growth, but also delivers the sort of changes that we want to see; greater investment in health and education, in aged care, in early childhood education and care, real, real change for the climate, real investment in changing our economy to accept more renewables into our energy market.
These things can only really be delivered by a majority Labor Government.
JAYES: I mean just thinking about Bob Brown and Christine Milne, when Rudd was Prime Minister, killing that carbon initiative. But looking at Adam Bandt's leadership and all the iterations between Bob Brown and Adam Bandt, would you say he's probably the most extreme Greens leader we've seen?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I don't think the Greens political party are the party of Bob Brown anymore. I think this is one of the problems. Like the idea that Max Chandler Mather would spend more time defending John Setka and the bikie infiltration of the CFMEU than he spends defending the environment I think tells you all you need to know about the modern Greens.
Like, you know, Max Chandler Mather standing up and saying that we shouldn't act to get the criminal infiltration out of the CFMEU is really troubling. John Setka's out there saying men have lost rights because Rosie Batty has been too successful in her campaign to reduce domestic violence. What is Adam Bandt doing to pull Max Chandler Mather into line to reject that sort of misogynist rhetoric?
I just don't think this is a party of environmentalists anymore.
JAYES: Yeah. Adam Bandt and perhaps Mark Latham having something in common there, that's weird. Anyway, before I let you go --
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Right now, Laura, just to say this last thing, right. We've got an Environment Protection Australia, Australia's first Environment Protection Agency, in the Senate ready right now for the Greens to vote for and they're saying they don't want it anymore.
Like, it's just it's not a party of environmentalists anymore.
JAYES: Yeah. Well, they want a climate trigger. And let me ask you this with the Global Nature Positive Summit coming up as well and also business, everywhere I go in the country, South Australia talking to Malinauskas, they're tearing their hair out over the EBPC Act. This is, you know, right in your wheelhouse, about to go to an election can you fix it to make it okay, what's being done?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yes, I can. I can. I can if I can get either the Greens or the Liberals and Nationals to vote for the Stage 2 reforms that are in the Parliament right now, right now in the Senate.
JAYES: Does that fix it though or is that just a first step?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That's the next step, and then the third step, I mean the third step can't happen till the second step's gone through the Parliament. We're establishing the architecture for the changes. I'm very keen to see the third stage pass as well. We need to get the second stage through first to set up Environment Information Australia, to set up Environment Protection Agency, to provide those strong new powers and penalties to Environment Protection Australia, to give it stop work orders, to make it possible to protect our environment better, but also give faster, clearer decisions for business.
I've actually doubled on time approvals since becoming the Minister. We have been able to speed up approvals. We could do even better if we could get our legislation through the Parliament, and once again, we've got the Liberals and the Nationals and the Greens teaming up to block progress. Bizarre.
JAYES: It is. Thanks so much for your time. Great to see you.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Great to see you.
END
