E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SUNRISE
MONDAY, 4 May 2026
Topics: BUDGET; HOUSING POLICY
NATALIE BARR: For their take, let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce, Good morning to both of you. Tanya, does this mean your government is now comfortable breaking its promises?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Well, for a start, Nat, we haven't confirmed anything that might be in the Budget, that's a week away. And if you're talking about housing policy in Australia, we are absolutely determined to make sure that today's Australians can hope for a house of their own, in the same way that their parents and their grandparents could. So, far, we've helped 300,000 people into a home of their own through our 5 per cent deposit scheme. We've set aside 100,000 homes for first-home buyers. In my own electorate, we've opened new community housing. We just a couple of weeks ago opened a new emergency and transitional accommodation for people who are struggling. We are absolutely focused. I've got three kids, Nat. I want them to be able to afford a home of their own one day.
BARR: Yeah, we all do.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I don't think anybody. Yeah, well, exactly, and that means that we really need to focus on housing policy in this country.
BARR: Ok, so is negative gearing off the table?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I'm not going to talk about anything that may or may not be in the Budget. It's in a week's time. People can hold out for a week and they'll see on Budget night that our commitment to fairness is unchanged.
BARR: Ok, so if negative gearing is on the table in the budget, is that a broken promise?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, as I said, the Budget's a week away. I'm not going to speculate about what's in or out-
BARR: But would it be?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: But I can tell you, when it comes to housing policy-
BARR: It would be, wouldn't it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: When it comes to housing, we determined that young Australians can hope for a home of their own. Well, Nat, you know, at the time of, not this election, the one before, we said we weren't going to change tax policy and instead we made our tax policies fairer so they helped more people at the bottom end and in the middle and Australians agreed that, on closer examination, that was a much fairer thing to do than just give tax cuts to the top end, which was the Liberal's proposal. We changed the policy because it became apparent that it was unfair.
BARR: So, should we have this conversation now? Should we wait till after the budget? Because the speculation's pretty big-
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think we should-
BARR: The Prime Minister is not ruling anything out-
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: There's plenty of speculation-
BARR: If it's in the Budget, have you guys broken your promise?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: -and it's only a week away, but I will say. Well, Nat, you're asking me to give you a comment on a hypothetical. And I say that I'm not going to comment on hypotheticals. What I will tell you for certain is that we are going to have a Budget that has fairness at its centre and that includes intergenerational fairness so that my kids and your kids and Barnaby's kids can all hope one day to own a home of their own. And I think Australians my age and older perhaps who've got property investments understand that it is important that our kids and grandkids have the same opportunities that they did.
BARR: Okay, Barnaby hasn't Tanya got a point? First, home buyers are in a losing dog fight with investors. Something has to change.
BARNABY JOYCE: Well, Tanya has a position, and after that mad evasive answer, we got the greatest endorsement that they're going to bring in changes to negative gearing to get rid of them, and we hear also change the capital gains tax. Changes to capital gains tax in such a way as you've basically got to quasi death duties coming into people on the land if you change trust. Because there's no way one of my children can afford to pay the tax on the transfer of property because property are intergenerational assets out here and it's to be handed on to your kids. And we've had probate with death duties in the past. You can't do it. And there will be no change to-
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Talking about death duties is just a lie, Barnaby.
JOYCE: [inaudible] Hang on. So, you are ruling out death duties, but you're not ruling out changes to negative gearing? That's amazing.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, this is part of the line you've been running for years about death duties.
JOYCE: How do you manage to do that? How do you manage to give a straight answer when you've given the greatest evasive non answer but endorsement merely seconds before. So, you see, that's what happens, ladies and gentlemen. It's just such a load of rubbish. You just can't. These people cannot lie straight in bed. And you know what we're seeing it [inaudible]-
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We have been super clear that death duties are never on the agenda.
JOYCE: the reason, the reason you do it, doing it is they’ve run out of money-
BARR: Baraby, they've ruled out death duties. And the Coalition has brought that up as a scare tactic in every campaign in the last few years.
JOYCE: But Nat-
BARR: So, let's forget about death duties. Let's talk about what we're talking about.
JOYCE: But Nat, why can they rule, Nat, why can they rule that out but they can't give you a straight answer on television?
BARR: That's a good point.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You're asking me to comment on the Budget that’s in a week's time, and I'm saying wait a week, just wait a week.
JOYCE: You just ruled out death duties, Tanya.
BARR: Okay, Barnaby, do you think-
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: All will be clear in a weeks time.
BARR: Barnaby do there should be any changes to capital gains tax or negative gearing?
JOYCE: No. No, and I’ll tell you why-
BARR: None whatsoever?
JOYCE: No and I'll tell you why. Because people who are prudent, who, after they have paid tax on their income, invest in capital assets so their children can have a better life by handing across an asset to them because they went without. They didn't buy the new boat, they didn't go on the trip, they didn't buy the new car. They put their money away for other people who come after them. And what's happening now is Uncle Jim has run out of money. He's desperately looking for it, so he's going to the prudent people and ripping it off them. That's why he didn't change it.
BARR: Okay Tanya, there is speculation it is a cash grab and it won't actually increase housing supply, which is the key to the housing crisis. What do you say about that, to wrap up?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, housing supply is absolutely the key. And that's why we're so determined to build more homes, train more tradies. We've got thousands of people who've started free TAFE, make sure that the supplies are there, make sure that the rules reflect what we need in our capital cities and our regions to get more housing stock built. We're the first government in generations to take this seriously. And I'm really pleased to see those hundreds of thousands of Australians, for example, get into a home of their own with our 5 per cent deposit policy. Yes, I agree that housing supply is absolutely key.
BARR: Okay, well, I guess we will see next Tuesday, when the Treasurer stands, whether it is in the Budget. Thank you very much. We'll see you next week.
ENDS
