THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH LAURA JAYES
THURSDAY 12 SEPTEMBER 2024
SUBJECTS: Misinformation laws; Environmental law reform; Anti-war rally in Melbourne.
LAURA JAYES, HOST: And joining me live now is the Environment Minister, Tanya Plibersek, live from Canberra. Thanks so much for your time, Tanya. First of all, misinformation laws.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Good morning, Laura.
JAYES: I think these would be welcomed, but there is always an inherent risk in these kinds of things. Who's the one that decides what is misinformation? Satire, comedy might be exempt, but we all find different things funny, don't we?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah. Well, we did actually consult very widely on these laws, and they were changed before we introduced them just to make sure that we really highlighted that we are very much balancing the need for free speech in this country with protection from serious harm. So, it is a very high bar, and we are talking about deliberate misinformation and disinformation. It doesn't mean we can police things that we don't agree with. It is a high bar of serious harm, and it won't be the government, obviously, deciding. It would be ACMA deciding on whether to take action or not.
JAYES: But ACMA needs a framework as well to operate within. Who sets that framework?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, and that's why we've consulted so widely on these laws. And the Communications Minister, Michelle Rowland, has been very careful in drafting them and introducing them. There's plenty of opportunity, obviously, before they were introduced into the Parliament to give feedback on the laws, and they'll be debated as well by the Parliament, and I think that's very appropriate.
Look, I'm very much in favour of free speech. There's plenty of things I read in the newspapers or see on TV that I disagree with, I disagree with strongly. Plenty of stuff on social media I disagree with. This is not about things we disagree with or having arguments; it's about causing serious harm with deliberate misinformation and disinformation. So, it's a very high bar. And I suppose one of the things we're trying to guard against is malevolent actors, including from outside Australia, trying to influence our democracy in a dishonest way. We've seen, unfortunately, a lot of this happening in more recent times. We know that there are countries around the world that put a lot of time and energy into developing misinformation and disinformation campaigns to foster social unrest and conflict in our communities. We definitely don't want to see that emerging in Australia. We know that with the sort of AI-generated deep fakes, we have the real capacity for malevolent actors to cause serious harm. That's what we're trying to avoid.
JAYES: Can I ask you about the Minerals Council. Now there's a story in the front page of The Australian. The Minerals Council, a lobby group for the resources industry, is worried about where Labor's going on, environmental protections and climate change triggers that would see further projects, mining projects, kiboshed. Can you give some kind of reassurance this morning as to what your overall thinking is, whether the EBPC act needs to be changed fundamentally on a productivity level alone?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, look, I definitely would say that our existing environment laws don't work for the environment, and they don't work for business. Professor Graeme Samuel did a review of that Act a few years ago, made that very clear, and made a number of suggestions of how the laws should be changed. We're following the suggestions made by Professor Samuel. We want to see these laws reformed, so they work better for business, give faster, clearer decisions for business and better protect nature. We've got the second tranche of our environmental law reforms before the Senate now. So, they've gone through the House of Representatives and I think parties should vote for them in the Senate, as the laws are now. They don't include a climate trigger now, but we work with the Senate that the Australian people elected.
JAYES: Would there be a climate trigger?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I'm saying we work with the Senate that the Australian people elected. We are in talks with the Greens political party, with the Crossbench, with the Liberals, with the Nationals. I'd like to see the laws as they are passed through the Senate but I'm a realist. I've said all along it's likely that we'll need compromise and common sense. If there are sensible amendments that are proposed by the Liberals or Nationals or the Greens or the Crossbench, we are prepared to look at those sensible amendments in order to get our laws passed.
We want to set up Environment Protection Australia. Australia needs a national EPA. We want faster, clearer decisions for business. The laws before the Senate right now would speed up approval processes because of the extra investment we would put into environmental data, giving us the opportunity to do better regional planning, being able to make assessments on a regional scale rather than project by project.
There's something in these laws for everyone. The Greens political party should support the laws as they are because they offer much stronger environmental protections. Australia's first EPA, with stronger powers and higher penalties. The ability to do stop work orders if there's environmental destruction imminent for business. What's in this? Faster, clearer decisions based on better data.
JAYES: But the Greens have proven themselves not to be reasonable in recent times. They're always pushing for more.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You're forced to negotiate about both sides, Laura.
JAYES: Okay, but if you're forced to negotiate with the Greens in the Senate here, is that really going to be the best possible outcome when the resources sector is worried about a climate change trigger?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Laura, this is democracy. The Australian people have elected a Senate where we have to have the agreement of either the Coalition parties or the Greens and the Crossbench. We deal with that all the time.
JAYES: Would you rather be negotiating with the Coalition here, is that what you're saying?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I'd rather my laws go through as they are. They're a good set of laws. They've gone through the House of Representatives. They should go through the Senate unamended. Sadly, I don't have the luxury of saying I'm not prepared to talk to other parties, so I'm in discussions with all of them.
JAYES: Speaking of democracy. Democracy perhaps in action in Melbourne, but it looks like anarchy. It certainly did yesterday. I'm just watching these pictures out of the corner of the bottom of the screen.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, it's disgraceful. People, of course, absolutely have the right to protest peacefully in our country, in our democracy. But you don't protest for peace by throwing missiles at police. I support the right of peaceful protest. I don't support violence directed at police who are only doing their job.
JAYES: And what you saw yesterday was pretty violent, wasn't it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Oh, it's disgraceful. I don't know how you call yourself a peace protester and turn up and start throwing missiles at people who are just out there doing their jobs.
JAYES: One of the things that was really puzzling yesterday, that kind of debases all these other causes, is there was climate change protesters that added themselves to that yesterday. There was some random Russian flags. What does this say about the level of kind of professional protesters in this country?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I frankly don't understand what some of these people are doing at the protests. I understand the old-fashioned sort of peace protests, Palm Sunday anti-nuclear protests where hundreds of thousands of people would march in the street with their kids and their dogs and homemade posters calling for peace. I get that. I was part of those protests against the Iraq war, calling for peace. I totally understand that. What I don't understand is what looks like the extreme left and the extreme right teaming up in a violent protest, apparently for peace. I don't get it.
JAYES: Yep, neither do I. That's probably a good spot to leave it. We'll let you get back to work. Tanya Plibersek, thanks so much for your time.
END
