SUBJECTS: AUKUS, Australian Manufacturing, TikTok app
NATALIE BARR: Thanks very much, Kochie. The Prime Minister is set to reveal the real price tag of Australia’s nuclear submarine plan. The deal will cost taxpayers more than $200 billion – that’s over 30 years – while creating 20,000 direct Australian jobs, including 8,500 in the building and maintenance phase. Anthony Albanese will unveil the AUKUS plan with US President Joe Biden and British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak at an American naval base tomorrow. Let’s bring in Environment Minister, Tanya Plibersek, and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to you both.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Good morning.
BARR: Tanya, this is a huge investment. Is it really worth it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yes, I think it’s very clear that both the Government and the Opposition agree that this is an important capability for Australia. These submarines will be very important in our ability to defend ourselves in the future. It’s a very long term project and with it will come a substantial number of jobs and huge investment and a real capability in the Australian economy. If we want to be an advanced manufacturing economy, these sorts of projects will really support that, so it’s great for the defence of the nation. It’ll mean thousands of extra jobs and, of course, it lifts our ability as a nation that can make things.
BARR: Barnaby, do we need to spend this much money now?
BARNABY JOYCE: Well, I’m glad that they’re looking at buying them off the shelf to start of with. That will reduce costs and also allow us to buy a Virginia class submarine, which has already had the ticks taken out of it, rather than trying to design it from the start, which obviously comes with delays. This is the cost of defending our nation. It’s one of the primary jobs of Government up there with cost of living, and what we’ll see is really – I understand about manufacturing jobs, but its main job is to project Australia. That’s the main job. But it’s only part of a platform that defends Australia. We have to be as strong as possible, as quickly as possible in every facet and that’s agriculture, manufacturing, and do that you need basic things right, like low power prices, to make sure that we have the capacity to pay for it, because it’s all right buying them but then the job comes of paying for it, and that needs a vibrant economy to do so.
BARR: Okay. Well I’m glad there’s a rare agreement from you both on a Monday. Home Affairs Minister, Clare O’Neil, will soon receive findings of a major security review into Chinese owned social media app TikTok. It’s looked into privacy concern, political censorship and disinformation on the platform. Tanya, how concerned is your Government about China and TikTok, our biggest downloaded app?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think it’s important that people know what they’re getting themselves in for when they download apps on to their phone. And with most of these apps if it’s for free and it seems too good to be true, it probably is too good to be true. You don’t get anything for nothing these days.
This is an important inquiry that the Home Affairs Minister, Clare O’Neil, has instigated. It’s important to know what you’re letting yourself in for when you’re participating in social media in this way and it’s important that you know what your kids are downloading on to their phones as well.
BARR: Barnaby, Canada and the US have banned TikTok on all Government phones. Should Australia be doing this?
JOYCE: Well, I don’t have TikTok on mine and, as it’s a Chinese platform, undoubtedly, as you’re watching it, someone’s watching you or at least taking into account the data that you use and how you use it. And that gives its immense power, especially around election time, especially around issues of knowing even with the GPS on your phone, if they can do it, they can work out where you are. We’ve also heard in the past that they can have the capacity to actually watch you through your own camera. Now, that’s not for everybody, but for the ones that they think they’re very interested in, and this is incredibly intrusive and incredibly dangerous. It sort of underpins in a certain way why we’re spending so much money on defence and such things as nuclear submarines. It’s the act of an aggressor. It’s not the act of a person who’s sort of applied participant in the world’s social media platform, which in itself has to – you know, we need better controls. The issues that people can put on social media that affect people, especially young girls and issues such as eating disorders, inspiring them, is really, really, really toxic and bad. And I don’t have TikTok on mine, and if we lost TikTok, I don’t think Australia would be a worse place.
BARR: Yeah, well, especially on Government phones. It’s going to be interesting because big countries like the US and Canada banning them on Government phone, we’ll see where we end up after that review.
Thank you very much both of you. See you next week. Here’s Eddie.
