NATALIE BARR, HOST: Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is struggling to sell the Liberal Party message within his own party after the last remaining Liberal premier broke ranks with his federal counterparts by agreeing to support the Voice to Parliament. Tasmanian Premier Jeremy Rockliff will campaign for the yes side, in direct contrast to Dutton, who last week decided to vote against the referendum. It comes after the Liberals devastating byelection loss in Aston and the recent state election defeat in New South Wales. The latest national poll has 54 per cent of this nation backing the referendum, 38 per cent opposed. 

For their thoughts. Let's bring in Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Morning to both of you.

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Morning.

BARNABY JOYCE, NATIONALS MP: Good morning.

NATALIE BARR: Barnaby, a Liberal premier voting against Peter Dutton's position. Is that a good look for his leadership?

JOYCE: Well, Peter and myself and others and David are fighting this because we believe it's wrong. What Jeremy Rockliff should start off with answering is what are you going to do when you have a selected body, Jeremy, that is there in perpetuity because it's there by reason of the Constitution, that has connections to the highest levels of government, such as interest rates with the Reserve Bank Governor, with the chief of the Defence Force, with the head of the ABC and what they put on ABC to senior ministers. If they latently become part or partisan to, for instance, the Labor party and the Greens, and you can't have an election to remove them, how are you going to deal with that forevermore? How does that work no matter who changes the government, they say the same. Now that, for a politician, should ring some bells. 

And away from that, Jeremy would have to explain why he believes that people are born in Australia with different rights. I mean, if he said that overseas, people say, oh, you know, do you realise you have a racial clause in the Australian Constitution? They'd say, oh, no, that's the White Australia Policy. They got rid of it. They go, no no, true, they brought it back 2023, they brought back a racial clause.
BARR: Okay, Tanya, you're sitting there shaking your head, but a lot of Australians do have questions about this. How it's going to work on a day-to-day basis? Say it goes through, what the Voice group can influence, what they can say on everyday government decisions. I think that seems to be what people want answered first.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a really fair thing to focus on. So, this constitutional referendum is about two very simple things. It's about acknowledging in our Constitution, the foundational document of our nation, that we don't have a couple of hundred years of history, we've got 65,000 years of history and culture here in Australia. We are unique in the world to have 65,000 years of continuous history and culture to learn on, and all Australians can be proud of that. 

Now, the Voice is about issues that affect Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians. We know that we've got a big gap in life expectancy, in health outcomes, in remote housing, in employment, in education. Does Barnaby really think that an Indigenous Voice to Parliament is going to be worrying about interfering in Defence policy when we've got a ten-year life expectancy gap? Now Barnaby is making up all of these frightening scenarios because he just wants to say no. Barnaby and Peter Dutton have been looking for an excuse to say no from the very beginning.

JOYCE: No, that’s not correct. You’re half right, and you’re half wrong. 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: This is not about what politicians want. This is what First Nations Australians have been asking for and offering for decades now to be listened to on matters that impact on their lives. We know when we've got Aboriginal health services that the health outcomes are better. 

JOYCE: You prescribe it to them.

 
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We know if we got Aboriginal people involved in Justice that the outcomes are better.

JOYCE: You prescribe it to them.

 
BARR: Okay. We do need to improve that. I think everyone agrees we need to improve that.

 
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: This is what that is about. It's very simple.