The Hon Tanya Plibersek MP
Minister for Social Services

E&OE Transcript
TV INTERVIEW
SUNRISE
MONDAY, 10 NOVEMBER 2025

Topics: ENERGY REBATES; POWER PRICES.

NATALIE BARR: For their take, let's bring in Social Services Minister, Tanya Plibersek, and outgoing Nationals MP, Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you.

BARNABY JOYCE: Morning Nat. 

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Good morning.

BARR: Tanya, Aussies are struggling many blame you for it. When will we know if those energy rebates are going to be extended?

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, of course, that's a question for the Prime Minister and the Treasurer, but all of us in the government are 100 per cent focused on cost of living, and that's why we've got cheaper medicines, more bulk billing, fee‑free TAFE, cheaper childcare, university debt relief, extra investment in housing.

We know that Australians want to see help from the government. We've been there with the energy bill relief. I mean it's worth noting that the Liberals and Nationals voted against those energy rebates in the past.

It's also why we're working so hard to make power cheaper through things like the batteries on solar roof tops. Now we've got more than 4 million homes that have got solar roof tops, but well over 100,000 have taken up the opportunity of a cheaper battery, and from next year, if you're hooked up to the National Energy Market, you're going to get three free hours of power. So a whole lot of households who, as you say, Nat, not everyone can have solar on the roof, but Australians are still going to benefit, if they're hooked up to the national electricity grid, from those three hours of free power in the middle of the day.

BARR: Yeah, I think you have to be in South East Queensland, New South Wales or South Australia to get those three free hours, and you have to be on the market default rate, which I think is only about 10 per cent of the population. Barnaby, let's go to you.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It shows why it's good to shop around.

BARR: Yeah, it's just quite a small amount of [inaudible] ‑‑

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It's why it's good to shop around with the energy bills too.

JOYCE: Yeah, it’s only the default market.

BARR: Yeah, and the default market rate, I think, from what I understand, Barnaby, you may correct me ‑‑

JOYCE: Is the highest.

BARR: ‑‑ if you're on the default market rate, you maybe end up paying more ‑‑

JOYCE: Yes.

BARR: ‑‑ to be on that rate ‑‑

JOYCE: That's right, you are.

BARR: ‑‑ than what you save from your three hours, that's what, you know, people are telling us. 

JOYCE: That's correct, total swindle, but anyway.

BARR: Yeah. So Barnaby, let's talk about energy prices. They've gone up about, I think, what, 10 per cent in the last year.

JOYCE: That's right.

BARR: Should the rebates be extended in your opinion, Barnaby?

JOYCE: Look, it's about 25, the electricity prices went up, and they took in the 12 months to the end of June. It's a total swindle, it's a band‑aid on an amputated leg that's happened out in the paddock.

What we see is all the things that Tanya just brought up are where the taxpayers' money is given back to the taxpayers or to non‑taxpayers. It's not about a fundamental change. And the intermittent power swindle has brought a structural decline, a structural, basically destruction of our power grid, and it's not going to get better, because intermittent power's the dearest, and it's quite self‑evident in your power bill.

Now, Mr Albanese is obviously thinking, well, obviously the cost of living is the biggest issue, so he's come up with this stroke of genius that will give the taxpayer back some of their own money and claim responsibility for it, at the same time while ‑‑

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So are you going to vote for it or against it this time?

JOYCE: ‑‑ well, you've got to let ‑ you just spoke for about five minutes before, so if you don't like me interrupting you, don't interrupt me; how's that for a deal?

So what we are going to see is this continual sort of ducks and drakes game by the government to cover up the cost‑of‑living crisis, and quite self‑evidently, at the end of the day you're going to have, just like you've deindustrialised our nation, just like a lot of major heavy industries are leaving, just like people can't afford their power bill, you're going to be stuck with the Labor Party's intermittent fiasco.

BARR: Okay. Barnaby, just on Tanya's question, do you support the rebate?

JOYCE: Well, I think that you'll get to a position where you'll be politically jammed into supporting them, but I don't support the intermittent power, don't support us rolling out wind ‑‑

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, you voted against it last time.

JOYCE: ‑‑ and solar ‑ well, solar panels and wind towers in every corner of the nation, and whilst we keep on making this massive mistake, just doubling up and doing it again. It's like a dog returning to its vomit, as the Bible tells you; you just ‑ if you're making a stuff‑up, you stop it, you don't continue on.

BARR: So, okay ‑‑

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: The mistake, Barnaby, is you did nothing when you were told that 24 coal‑fired power stations were closing, you did nothing, and we are, yes, seeing the result of that, and ‑‑

JOYCE: No, Tanya, you're ‑‑

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑‑ renewables now more than half the grid last month ‑‑

JOYCE: No, they're not, they're not, they're [inaudible] ‑‑

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑‑ wholesale power prices down by 38 per cent ‑‑

JOYCE: Everything you say is not correct.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑‑ and you voted against the cost of living support ‑‑

JOYCE: Tanya, Tanya ‑‑

BARR: Tanya, only half the grid at certain ‑‑

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: ‑‑ that you're now saying people need.

BARR: ‑‑ at certain times of the day, I think.

JOYCE: Tanya, everything you say is just ‑ is just a half truth, Tanya.

BARR: But just on that last question ‑‑

JOYCE: You've got ‑ you've got your ‑‑

BARR: ‑‑ Barnaby, will you vote for the rebates?

JOYCE: Let's see exactly the detail of it, okay? I want to see the detail of it.

BARR: Okay.

JOYCE: But everything she ‑ Tanya says is a swindle.

BARR: Yep.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Sure.

JOYCE: Getting a three‑hour ‑‑ no, you're not actually, unless you're on the default rate. That's about 10 per cent, that's the highest.

BARR: Yeah, and we might delve into that.

JOYCE: That's the highest rate.

BARR: We might delve into that because ‑‑

JOYCE: You know, it's just crazy.

BARR: ‑‑ you're right, we've had, you know, the experts on to say that isn't exactly what it's, you know, billed as. Thank you very much, we've run out of time. We have the New South Wales Premier on as well. Thank you very much, we'll see you next week.

ENDS