THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SUNRISE WITH NATALIE BARR
MONDAY, 17 MARCH 2025
SUBJECTS: INCREASED SUPERMARKET PRICES, FUTURE ENERGY PLANS.
NATALIE BARR: Grocery bills have surged 30 per cent since Labor came into office, with households left $3,000 poorer a year as a result. Staple items like olive oil have gone up 60 per cent, diced tomatoes up 50 per cent, white sugar up 43 since June 2022. Supermarkets have also seen an uptick in the purchase of frozen food and canned goods as families try to save on the weekly shop. For their take, let's bring in Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you.
Tanya, we know you have delivered tax cuts to every Australian, energy bill relief, cheaper childcare and GP visits. But this is what people are talking about. The cost of living. Tomato sauce up 31 per cent. Things people are buying every week. What specifically can you do to help them?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Yeah, we know that cost of living is really top of mind for Australian families and that's why we've done those things that you've said and we’ve supported increased wages as well, so people are earning more and keeping more of what they earn. But when it comes to groceries specifically, we've given the ACCC stronger powers to go after supermarket chains that are behaving badly. We've enforced a mandatory grocery code of conduct with fines of up to $10 million for supermarkets that are doing the wrong thing. We're making sure that there's competition in the supermarket sector and we keep saying to those supermarkets they've got to do something at the checkout because families are really feeling those grocery price increases. We're proud of the fact that we've brought inflation down from six per cent, which we inherited under the Liberals, to just over two per cent. But there's still more to do to make sure that people are feeling a bit of relief at the supermarket checkout.
BARR: Ok, so people are seeing this and hearing that inflation's down six per cent, but they're going, hang on my grocery bill, look at the figures. It was $213 for a family of four roughly three years ago. Now it's $270. But inflation's gone down. Now, I'm no economist, but that doesn't make sense. And are you saying that the supermarkets could be jacking their prices up 30 per cent?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we're doing work to make sure that they're not tricking people as well. That's one of the problems that we've observed. There's something called shrinkflation where they're charging you about the same, but you're getting much less product for the amount that you're paying. We're cracking down on shrinkflation. We've got the ACCC, stronger powers, fines of up to $10 million that they can levy against the supermarkets if they are behaving in a way that's anticompetitive. And the supermarket code of conduct, that used to be a voluntary thing. They could abide by it if they wanted to. We've made that mandatory and put in much higher penalties as well for the supermarkets if they do the wrong thing. I guess the question for Barnaby is, what's his plan?
BARR: Well, exactly.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We inherited a situation where prices were going up. We know that, we took it seriously, we've cracked down on it, and because of that, prices are growing more slowly than they were when we came to government. What's the alternative plan?
BARR: It doesn't feel like it, though, that they're growing more slowly and yet they've gone up, you know, by this much, by 30 per cent. So, Barnaby, let's talk about what you would do. We know that supermarket inquiry results are coming out in the next few weeks. What would you guys do to help people at the grocery, at the checkout?
BARNABY JOYCE: We have to look at the fundamentals that underpin the reason why grocery prices are going up, why people's cost of living is running away from them. And one of the fundamentals is the cost of energy. Now with the cost of energy, you have the Labor Party’s plan for 82 per cent renewables by 2030, which is driving, smashing people's budgets, driving up the price of groceries in the shop. You pay for them at the power point, you pay for them in the shopping trolley. That's what you get with Labor Party ideology. The other thing is the further and further caveats have been placed on how farmers work. We see that they're shutting down the live sheep trade. All these things that drive towards further and further restrictions on how farmers do their job, also puts up the price of groceries. So, there are two things, and the third thing, I would say that we actually are going to bring forward a divestiture of powers, a sword of Damocles as a last resort. The Labor Party doesn't support that. They talk about competitiveness in the grocery market sector, but they don't really have the big stick that is required, if, and I don't say the supermarkets play up all the time, but if they do that, we have the capacity to say to them, listen to us. We do have the capacity to break you, break you up if -
BARR: So, you want to be able to break them up?
JOYCE: There are three major things that we're dealing with right now.
BARR: Just on the power. Because we do talk -
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Nuclear power.
JOYCE: Oh god, here we go.
BARR: We do edge towards this, yep, Tanya, I'm just going to get to him on this because - well, no, it’s not here we go because people want to know. Oh, that rhymes. So, Barnaby.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It's the 2040s.
BARR: Exactly.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: He's talking about nuclear power in the 2040s, bringing down prices now.
JOYCE: Now you're interrupting Nat, now you're even interrupting Nat.
BARR: Hang on, hang on, just calm the farm. People want to know about the energy. I just want to ask you, Barnaby, people are curious about nuclear, but when you, every story you read, it looks like the first nuclear reactor will take somewhere between 10 and 15 years to build. Whether you believe the CSIRO figures or whichever study you believe, 10 to 15 years is a long time for people to get reduced power bills. What are you going to do in the meantime?
JOYCE: Well, you can even see it in New South Wales, you have to make sure that the coal fired power stations - this was Penny Sharpe, the left wing of the Labor Party, saying you've got to keep coal fired power going, otherwise you just won't have electricity. Well, that's an epiphany that should have been had years ago. And you've got to get more gas.
BARR: But you were in years ago. The Labor Party has been in for three years. They started closing these power stations like 10 years ago. It didn't just happen on Labor's watch.
JOYCE: Well, as we've been progressing and we've seen the power prices getting worse and worse and worse as more and more intermittent, euphemistically called renewables come onto the grid, then there should have been the capacity within government to say, this is not working, we've got to be -
BARR: So, why didn't you do anything?
JOYCE: We've got to stop being, stop being zealous and actually go back to the program of making sure we get that baseload power onto the grid and continue it onto the grid.
BARR: So, three years and a bit ago, why didn't you do anything?
JOYCE: Well, we've been, I've been driving for, to make sure that we had nuclear as part of our process for years and for, in fact, for about as long as I've been involved in this.
BARR: Well, who wouldn't listen? Was it ScoMo?
JOYCE: But - well, Mr Morrison is no longer with us. But what we've got to make sure is that we get off -
BARR: Well, hang on.
JOYCE: We've got to, we've got to get away from this 82 per cent renewables by 2030. Because every day we continue on that path is another day your grocery bill is going to go up, is another day that your power prices is going to go up. It's going to exacerbate the problem. So, it's back to the Labor Party, really. Are you sticking with your 2030, 82 per cent target?
BARR: Okay, look, I think we are kind of getting somewhere.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Nuclear power is the most expensive form of power.
JOYCE: Are you sticking with your target? Are you sticking with the intermediate target?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: 100 per cent, nuclear power is the most expensive form of power -
JOYCE: Well, power prices are going to keep going up. Power prices are going to keep going up.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: It won't be ready for 15 years. It'll add $1200 to people's energy bills -
JOYCE: The power prices will keep going up, Tanya. Tanya's sticking with the problem.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You're gonna pay $600 billion worth of tax payer money.
BARR: If it's a plan, maybe we should of done it 15 years ago. But yeah, it’s a hard one.
JOYCE: You would of signed up to the problem, you have signed up to the problem.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: They were told 22 coal fired power stations were going to close. Under our watch they were warned 22 coal fired power stations were closing. They did nothing.
BARR: Ok, I think we're going to leave it there, I feel like we're edging towards just the odd answer here. Thank you very much. See you next week.
END
