THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
SEVEN SUNRISE
MONDAY, 18 AUGUST 2025
Topics: Newspoll; Work from Home Policies; AI.
NATALIE BARR: A new poll has found that Aussies are more worried about Donald Trump's tariffs than a rising threat of China's military. Newspoll data released this morning shows 42 per cent of us are concerned by the tariffs, compared to 37 per cent worried about China's armed forces. When broken down by party affiliation, Labor voters are much more fearful of the tariffs compared to Coalition voters, who cite China's military as a bigger concern. For their take, let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek. And from the -2 degree Sunrise Hill in Danglemah, hence the beanie, Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you. Tanya, have we got our priorities in order here?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: Oh, look, I think the Australian government is focused on both. We're focused on our trading relationships, and we're focused on national security, and we've taken strong measures to protect and advance both. But I think, Nat, at the end of the day, Australians understand that the global economy impacts their standard of living here in Australia. And that's why we've been very focused on making sure that wages are growing, that inflation's coming down. We've seen three interest rate cuts now this year. It's why we're focused on cost of living with cheaper childcare, cheaper medicines, more bulk billing, university debt relief, TAFE debt relief, electricity bill relief, all of those things, because that's really, at the end of the day, what people notice as they're going about their lives.
BARR: Yeah, wages are growing and interest rates are coming down, Barnaby. But people say tariffs rather than China's military buildup. What concerns you more?
BARNABY JOYCE: With all due respect, they've got that wrong. Tariffs are not going to lose the nation a war with a superpower, if it was, if it was, if it was so unlucky to have happen, would. China stockpiling food, it's building up, it's got the biggest navy, it's got the biggest army, it's done circumnavigation of Australia. We've seen spies in Australia just recently. I can assure you that China is a bigger threat than tariffs, but we just hope and pray we never see that reality of course. And, when we go through the issues, yes, of course interest rates have gone down and that's a great thing, but power prices have gone up and being here at -2, I can assure you right now, as I get around the electorate, we have people, especially in areas around here who are poor and they can't afford power. And, so, they're told that the way to stay warm is to sleep with their pets, their dog. I mean, this is ridiculous that this is happening in Australia. So, there is one thing. Forget the idea, stop this mythical statement that power prices are going down. They've been going up and up and up and they've dragged down the standard of living, the cost. Because the cost of living goes up and up and up with it without a shadow of a doubt.
BARR: Yeah, that is definitely horrific for most people. Moving on, the Australian Services Union has revealed they want six months warning before forcing employees to come back into the office after working from home. Tanya, do employees need six months’ notice to return to their desks?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we know that Australians do value the ability to work from home and that sort of flexibility because we saw Peter Dutton tried to cut it before the last election and people responded very badly. But in all of these instances, I think you need to take a commonsense approach. There are some jobs that you can't do working from home. There are some, there are some workplaces where that's difficult. It needs to be a sensible negotiation between employers and staff.
BARR. So, six months too much or about right?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Oh, no, I really, I'm not going to comment on, you know, the sort of arrangements you'd need to make at individual workplaces. I think you need to take a sensible arrangement. And we've made clear as a government what our priorities are. We've legislated to protect penalty rates, we've legislated to get rid of non-compete clauses. We've made it clear that employers can't cancel paid parental leave in the case of a stillbirth or the early death of a child. They're our priorities. They're the things that we said we'd do. We've done them. We're very focused on delivering what we promised. I'm not going to comment on every proposal that a union has or that an employer group has. We'll hear lots of those come and go. We're focused on our agenda.
BARR: Yeah, and we're hearing a lot of those this week because of course, this economic roundtable is-
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We sure are.
BARR: -sitting in Canberra. So, that's why we're asking people. Barnaby, the unions want six months warning before they, an employer, an employer can ask people to come back to the office. What do you think?
JOYCE: An absurdity. What you're doing there is encouraging people not to employ people. Nat you can't just stay-at-home – say, look, I'm just going to work from home today or you won't have a job. And to be honest -
BARR: Yeah, but a lot of people can work from home. So, what do you think about that?
JOYCE: I think you've got to be really, really careful with AI coming in. If your job is a keyboard, yourself and a computer, it's not a myth. AI is coming and what you're doing is encouraging people to say, actually you can stay home for the whole week because you don't have a job anymore. AI is going to come into the clerical work and just remove jobs left, right and centre. So, I'd be doing everything in your power to try and keep your jobs because if people can prove they don't need to come to the office, then the office can prove that they can be replaced by AI. So, be really, really careful in not being enthusiastic about getting to the office and getting to work.
BARR: So, how do we protect those jobs?
JOYCE: I don't know whether you can, Nat. That's the problem. You know, what you have to do is broaden the base of your economy so there are alternate jobs to go to.
BARR: But-
JOYCE: But in our genius we have decided to go to net zero and intermittent power so we don't have an industrial base to absorb those jobs.
BARR: Well businesses-
JOYCE: And that is the big problems we've got.
BARR: Some business groups are saying if there will be a net improvement in the number of jobs created with AI. Do you agree with that, Tanya?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I think there'll be different types of jobs. So, a lot of the repetitive sort of work will be done by AI in the future. And what we need to do is make sure that there are good jobs available for Australians in new and emerging industries as well. And we've got real capacity to develop some of those AI tools right here. The big data centres that we're going to need to, to run some of these big programmes can be based right here and they can be powered by renewable energy, Barnaby.
JOYCE: [Inaudible] No we don’t, it’s insane saying that.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And we've got, we've got the cheapest form of energy available to us here in Australia.
JOYCE: It's insane.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Solar, wind. We know it's, we know it's the cheapest form of new energy, Barnaby.
JOYCE: [Indistinct].
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You can just pretend all you like nobody's going to go out and build a million new coal fired power stations as you think.
JOYCE: [Indistinct]. It's ridiculous. It doesn't happen.
BARR: I feel like we end up here every week. Barnaby, what about trades? I see over the weekend a call for us to be putting more effort, much more effort into developing kids going into trades because AI probably won't be able to replicate a lot of those.
JOYCE: You're dead right they should, because I can assure you, going back to my accountancy days, electricians overwhelmingly earn more money than people who have just graduated with arts degrees or junior degrees. No, doctors are going and make good money, there's no doubt about that. But if you see, AI won't be able to turn itself into a plumber or turn itself into an electrician or a chippy. It just won't do it. So, trades are a place where you can sustain a good level of employment. But if you're just in clerical work, remember, AI is not to replace the spinning loom or to replace a horse and a horse and plough. It's to replace people. That's what it's, that's what it's genius does. It replaces people. But it doesn't have hands. And it doesn't have feet. Think about it.
BARR: Or a lot of those mid-level, entry level business grads.
JOYCE: Well, why would you do it? Like you just think of a clerical job.
BARR: Well that's what AI is going to take over they're saying. It's fascinating. We will be talking a lot on this. Thank you very much. Stay warm, Barnaby.
JOYCE: Thank you.
BARR: Double beanie this morning, maybe. Thank you, Tanya. See you next week.
ENDS
