THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SUNRISE
MONDAY 3 FEBRUARY 2025
SUBJECTS: ANTISEMITISM.
NATALIE BARR: The Prime Minister is under pressure this morning to reveal whether or not he knew about the Sydney terror plot before it was made public knowledge last week. Anthony Albanese has refused to answer questions about whether he had been briefed about the discovery of a caravan packed with explosives in Northwest Sydney. That is despite New South Wales Police informing Premier Chris Minns the day after the discovery. For their take, let's bring in Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning. Tanya, a bomb on wheels is found on the outskirts of Australia's biggest city, should the Prime Minister have been told?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Well, of course it's a very concerning discovery, but what we don't do is give running commentaries during police investigations. The job of the police is to catch the criminals involved. That is their focus and that's our focus. We've also, of course, made sure that we've got all of the resources there and the powers that the police and security agencies need. We've backed Operation Avalite. We've put $100 million extra into counterterrorism, $57 million extra into protecting synagogues and schools and other Jewish institutions. We've criminalised doxxing, we've criminalised the Nazi salute and we've got laws in the Parliament right now to further criminalise hate speech, to put stronger preventions in against hate speech. Last time the Liberals were in government they argued to weaken our hate speech laws. They actually took a proposal to the Parliament to Weaken our hate speech laws.
BARR: We're not going to get into politics about this. I just want to talk about something -
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, this is important. This is what's going to make the big difference. To people -
BARR: And you know what's important to people, Tanya -
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: - really on the streets.
BARR: And the thing that's affecting people on the streets is the hate that is being spread across this country and people are sitting there saying -
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yes, yes, that's why we need stronger laws.
BARR: There are explosives packed in a caravan, parked on the side of a road, enough to kill people. Should the head of our country have known about that find?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Should the police be giving a running commentary on their investigations is the question here? The way we catch criminals is to -
BARR: I asked you a question and I'm just wondering on your response to that. As a senior minister in this government, what do you think?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: The police and the security agencies work hand in hand with the Prime Minister and with government at all times. What we don't do is give a running commentary about ongoing police investigations. The New South Wales Police made clear that the fact that this information was leaked compromised their investigations. And now we've got other people saying, oh yeah, we should chitty chat about it in public. Of course we shouldn't do that. We should be out there catching criminals to keep people safe.
BARR: It's not chitty chatting informing the Prime Minister, surely, is it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Sure, absolutely. But this is the difference between the police working with the government and the police issuing a press release about what they're telling the government. The Prime Minister works hand in hand -
BARR: We're not talking about a press release. Do you think the Prime Minister should have been told about something so big?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: The Prime Minister works hand in hand with our Australian Federal Police -
BARR: So he did know?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I'm not going to talk about it, Nat. That is the point. We don't give a running commentary about ongoing police investigations. What we do is change our laws, resource our police and our security agencies, take their advice and actually go after the people who are frightening Sydneysiders and Australians every day with this completely unacceptable behaviour. And when Peter Dutton was last in a position to do something about this, he wanted to weaken hate speech laws. He voted in this Parliament against criminalising doxxing. He's got the opportunity, instead of just big mouthing, to go into the Parliament now and vote for stronger hate speech laws. Let's see if he does it. Let's see if he does it.
BARR: Barnaby, is Peter Dutton playing politics with this? Is this a normal process where the head police are investigating it? They've told the Premier of New South Wales, he's kept it in his circle and that's as far as it's gone. Is that fair?
BARNABY JOYCE: Well let's - there's three parts of this. Number one, that was the biggest non answer on breakfast television that I've ever heard in the history of this program. Number two, it's quite obvious that the police trust Premier Minns more than they trust the Prime Minister of Australia. Number three is maybe, possibly we wouldn't be going down this path if the Labor Party had been more efficacious in their pursuit of antisemitism right from the start rather than the ambivalence we had. What we were on, the prospect of, what we were on the eve of is the biggest terror attack that Sydney possibly has ever seen and the deaths of hundreds of people. I don't know, you can go back to Ananda Margaret, I suppose in the 1970s for something similar but much, much smaller.
BARR: Okay, Barnaby.
JOYCE: This is where we've got to. And of course, of course Mr. Dutton needs to ventilate this because on discovering the truth for the protection of Australians and the protection in this instance of Sydney-siders, we have to have the proper disclosure. And I'm sure Peter Dutton, who has worked at the highest level of ERC, in a private briefing with him, could go through and deliberate as to whether an effective process had been followed. Now, I think that's something that should be offered to Peter Dutton because that is the way that you can have a debate that is not so called chitty-chatty in the public realm.
BARR: So is this - would this have been giving a running commentary to answer that question, Barnaby?
JOYCE: Well, a running commentary on what? We're getting bits and pieces. What we do know is that a briefing has not been offered to Peter Dutton. And what we do know is that at this point in time, Premier Minns obviously did have the details and Prime Minister Dutton - sorry, that's a - maybe that's a fortuitous statement of what's about to happen, that Prime Minister Albanese didn't.
BARR: Should Minns have told the Prime Minister?
JOYCE: Well, I suppose it'd be a presumption that Minns would think that they could - I mean, from a distance it would look like Minns would have a presumption that they trust the Prime Minister. And from what we see, it seems possibly that they - maybe it's not about trusting the Prime Minister, but don't trust his inner circle to keep a lid on this.
BARR: Tanya, last. Last question. Should the New South Wales Premier have told the Prime Minister?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I think it's really interesting that Peter Dutton wants to focus on who knew what when. Instead of saying, I'm prepared to vote for stronger laws against hate speech. He could have strengthened these laws when he had four years of Home Affairs Minister. He never did it.
JOYCE: That's what Oppositions do, they hold governments to account.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, and when you're in government, you could have introduced stronger laws. You tried to weaken hate speech laws.
JOYCE: That's what Oppositions do, they hold governments to account. That's the biggest distraction you're talking about your failure on antisemitism.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Barnaby, your government said people had a right to be in bigot when you're in government.
JOYCE: And you're desperately reaching back to something as an excuse.
BARR: Okay, I think we've covered it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And you tried to weaken the law.
JOYCE: That's just an excuse, Tanya. It's not an answer.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And you tried to weaken the law.
BARR: I think we've given you a chance to answer it. We'll leave it there. Thank you very much. We'll see you next week.
END
