THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SUNRISE WITH NATALIE BARR
MONDAY, 3 MARCH 2025
SUBJECTS: INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS; MEDICARE URGENT CARE CLINICS.
NATALIE BARR, HOST: Aussies have had their say on which leader would be better to work with Donald Trump. With a new poll finding, 31 per cent of voters believe Peter Dutton is best, while only 22 per cent say Anthony Albanese. And while 63 per cent of us want the relationship between our two countries to be more closely managed, standing up to the US President may be challenging in practice, especially given this confrontation with Ukraine's president at the Oval Office.
[Excerpt begins]
PRESIDENT TRUMP: You're gambling with the lives of millions of people. You're gambling with World War III. You're gambling with World War III.
[Excerpt ends]
And for their take, let's bring in Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you. Tanya, are you worried that some voters think Peter Dutton is better for working with Donald Trump?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Well, the first thing I'd say is a comment about Ukraine itself. Australia absolutely stands with Ukraine. We absolutely reject the idea that Russia was not the aggressor here. It is very plain that the Russian invasion was illegal and immoral. And the Prime Minister has made it very clear that we continue to stand with Ukraine. And I'm very pleased to see that the European leaders reiterated that on the weekend, as well.
As for the relationship between Australia and the United States, between the Prime Minister and the President, it's very close. The Prime Minister has had several very warm conversations with the US President. And I think it's a really strong indication of the closeness of the relationship that our Foreign Minister was one of the very few invited to the inauguration of the President. Our Treasurer has just returned from Washington. The relationship is long, it's strong, it's deep, it's very good.
BARR: Barnaby, no matter who the leader of Australia is in a couple of months, are you concerned about how we can work with Mr. Trump after seeing this exchange with Zelenskyy?
BARNABY JOYCE: I think what we saw was something happening on live time television, which happens in a back room, and I don't know how that goes. What I can say is, you can all see now that the way the world of politics works is a tough game, and you've got to become as strong as possible as quickly as possible. We had that going on the Oval Office, we had the Chinese with live fire off our coast, we've got wars in the Middle East, and this idea of everything will be fine because you'll just turn up to the United States and, you know, they'll just open the chequebook and send their sons and daughters over to help you out. Well, that's why we've got very strong working relationships with the United States. But what you could see clearly in that conversation is, he was saying, the Europeans have got to do their bit. He said, you know, and the Europeans now had a meeting and one of the first things they've said is, but we need the United States to support us. I think people have got to start reading the tea leaves and they've got to become very resilient in their own rights, which means you have to be ruthless in how you deal with your own domestic politics and your other issues that might be floating around, such as intermittent power, and say, what matters is our capacity to defend our nation. And so, people think that Mr. Dutton will get along better with Mr. Trump? Yes, I suppose that stands to reason. It's pretty obvious.
BARR: Barnaby, you've been around a while-
JOYCE: What's the meaning? What's the meaning underneath that for all of us?
BARR: The world was shocked by that whole language, just the body language and the actual language in the Oval Office and the fact that it played out in front of the media. Is that how you guys talk with world leaders behind closed doors? Is it just because we saw it, or is that unusual?
JOYCE: No, that's unusual. But you're talking about the leader of the free world there, who’s the most - representing the most powerful country on earth. And that's going to be a different relationship. I think what people can see from that is, don't just think, oh, well, some people live in this sort of euphemistic position. Oh, don't worry, because America will just come and fix everything up if we're too indulgent and weak to be able to look out for ourselves. During that live-fire exercise, for the Chinese required a Virgin plane to see it and required a New Zealand ship to track it. That is pathetic. Now, what we should be seeing these two events together and say, wake up to yourself, have your epiphany, realise you must become as powerful as possible as quickly as possible. And you'll be working with the United States. The United States is an ally, without a doubt. But don't just live in this idea that the world's a kind place and they'll do what we want because Mr. Zelenskyy is seeing right now that that's not necessarily the case.
BARR: Yeah, exactly, in real-time. Moving on, the Government has pledged more than $600 million to create 50 more Medicare Urgent Care Clinics across Australia, which would mean apparently four out of five Aussies would live within 20 minutes of a clinic. Tanya, how much pressure would these clinics take off hospitals? And is it just a fluke that a lot of them are in marginal seats?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we're already seeing the urgent care clinics taking pressure off hospitals. It means that if you, you know, if you've got a kid who injures themself at sport, needs a few stitches, got a sprain, maybe having an asthma attack, you can go to the urgent care clinic and have a much shorter waiting time than if you were going to hospital emergency. That's obviously really good for patients. It also is really good for our hospital system. It takes pressure off hospital emergency and leaves hospital emergency for the real emergencies that can't be treated anywhere else. So, we promised 50 clinics. We've delivered 87 so far, and now we're promising another 50. And where they go depends on hospital data. It's where the hospital emergencies are under most pressure. It's where we need to be seeing patients. And the really good news about about urgent care clinics, Nat, is that they are bulk billed. So, you go there, you don't pay a cent. You’re bulk billed. And I think Barnaby can probably tell you how popular the one in Tamworth is.
BARR: Barnaby, on the face of it, these sound like a great idea, don't they? As our hospitals are swamped. Are you going to match this like you matched the government's Medicare promise?
JOYCE: Well, I hate to say it to Tanya, but one of my staff members took their son to the urgent care clinic in Tamworth only recently, and it was shut. So, it's no, it's – we’ve really got to focus on how we do things in regional areas.
BARR: Well, that probably doesn’t mean they're all no good, I guess.
JOYCE: Well, where's the one in Walcha? I went to the Murrurundi Hospital the other day. There's no doctor in the hospital. No doctor. You go to Tenterfield, a lot of times there's no doctor. I think people in Sydney have got to understand that. Our issue is beyond bulk billing. We like bulk billing. Everybody loves bulk billing.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Barnaby, it takes six or seven years to train a doctor. Why didn’t you - why didn't you start training some six or seven years ago when you were in government?
JOYCE: Tanya, stop saying you're not the government. You get an opportunity to not be the government after May –
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Why didn’t you start training more doctors, and nurses, and OTs, and speech therapists, and all of these professions that are in shortages?
JOYCE: And Tanya, you are responsible if it doesn't work; you did it.
BARR: Well, Barnaby, she's right, though. I think the government's plan is going to train about another 2,000 doctors. We're way behind. So, that's just one of the things they're going to do. The question to you, Barnaby, was are you going to match the government's plan with the bulk billing clinics?
JOYCE: Anne Ruston has said quite clearly that she supports bulk billing. She supports these clinics. And no doubt as we come out with the costings, which Oppositions always do before an election, you get further detail on that. But I'm not going to start doing Anne's job. I've listened to Anne. She said she supports these clinics. She supports the process of trying to get people, more people into bulk billing. But we need in regional areas, not for you to say, oh, you're a safe seat, you're not a safe seat. We want you to provide the basic service for mums and dads, which is a doctor in a hospital. Try and give us that.
BARR: Right, okay.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Wouldn't it have been great if we'd started training them six or seven years ago, Barnaby, when you're in government? Because that's how long it takes to train a doctor.
JOYCE: Tanya. I can chop you off the knees on that one straight away. Why didn't you make this announcement at the start of your three-year term rather than at the end?
BARR: Okay, Tanya, last word.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We've actually already opened 87 clinics, we’re saying-
BARR: And on the doctor training, Tanya?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That's what the announcement is, Barnaby.
JOYCE: Why don't you – why didn’t you do the doctor training at the start, Tanya?
BARR: Tanya, last word.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We've been very supportive of training new doctors the whole way. We've acknowledged that there are shortages. Those shortages didn't happen overnight. They didn't happen overnight, Barnaby.
JOYCE: I think you heard it all there, folks.
BARR: Okay, thank you both. We'll leave it there. We'll see you next week.
END
