THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SUNRISE WITH NATALIE BARR
MONDAY 30 SEPTEMBER 2024
SUBJECTS: FOREIGN-MADE TECHNOLOGY AND ELECTRIC VEHICLES
NATALIE BARR: For their take, let's bring in – well, actually, we're still trying to get Tanya Plibersek's microphone sorted out, but let's start with Barnaby Joyce, you're in the studio with me this morning. You're in the hot seat over this anyway. Welcome. You're in out of the cold. Over 8 per cent of electric vehicles sold in Australia, currently manufactured in China. What's your big problem with them?
JOYCE: Well, I've got no problems with electric vehicles. I certainly don't want tariffs. My issue is that I want to make sure that our government, that has access to the National Security Committee, that includes ASIO and ASIS, which they kicked off the National Security Committee, now they've brought them back on, has clearly discussed with the United States what the issues are. We know that after the Hezbollah issue with the Israelis managed to blow up their pagers, that the remote access and the remote control of devices is certainly part of the new battlefield. And we want to make sure Australians are safe. We want to make sure that we've got all the information that clearly disseminates where any risks may lie.
And it's not only that, Nat. We've also got 200,000 solar panels, Chinese solar panels, on roofs across Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane. James Paterson has brought this up as a concern in the past. I want to make absolutely certain that Australians are safe there. It's precautionary, Nat. It's just making sure you do the right thing. We don't have a National Security Committee in the Opposition. The government does. And I think it's, you know, if America believes there's concerns there, away from tariffs, then surely, you'd say, well, America's pretty across their brief on security matters, there should be a discussion with them about what they see and what they know.
BARR: Are you fearful that the Chinese could somehow push buttons and blow up solar panels and cars in Australia?
JOYCE: Well, it's quite obvious, we’ve seen it in live view and we've got to make sure that the capacity to turn off overloaders on hot water systems, on roofs. Where do I get this information from Nat, it's actually been reported by people. In The Australian, there was reports from people who install hot water systems who said, we just don't know why there hasn't been a discussion around this. If you could remotely control the overload on heating, you've got a real problem.
BARR: But that wasn't the Chinese doing that. That was overseas that was against terror organisations –
JOYCE: I think any malevolent force that had capacity to do that needs to –
BARR: Do you think that could happen here?
JOYCE: Well, I don't think anything. Well, I do think a lot. I'm not a moron. I do read and I do try and make sure across the brief, because that's part of politics, making sure that any likely or possible threat that a cogent and proper authority has said you should have a look at, then I don't just dismiss it, I say, ok, well, that's fair enough. They know vastly more about this issue than I do, so let's have a yarn about it.
BARR: Tanya, this is a concern. We've got Barnaby Joyce concerned about, basically, vehicles coming in from China, solar panels coming in from China. Are our security committees looking at a possible danger here?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Well, Nat, there's computers in everything. There's computers in cars, in fridges, in microwaves, in your tv, and of course, all of them potentially can be accessed remotely. That's why we've invested $600 million in our Cyber Security Strategy. It's why we've invested $70 million in countering foreign interference and it's why we take the advice of our security agencies so seriously. But can I just say this? We used to have a car industry in Australia. The Liberals and Nationals drove it out of Australia. And if Barnaby's talking about making solar panels and batteries here in Australia, I agree with him. We should be doing that. That's why he should be voting for our Future Made in Australia Bill. That's exactly what it's about. Bringing more of that manufacturing back onshore.
JOYCE: That was not the question.
BARR: Okay, well, I mean, that is sort of a slightly different question, Tanya, that we can argue for another time. But is there a concern, when we've seen the pagers blow up, is there any security concern with batteries that are put in items that are coming from China and they're landing in this country? Is your government looking into that, Tanya?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, there's a reason that we're investing $600 million in our Cyber Security Strategy. Of course we have to be aware of computers, computer components.
BARR: Is that in the brief, after the pagers blew up?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Remember this. They're in everything now, Nat. This is something that security agencies have been looking at for some time.
JOYCE: So, you are looking at it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I mean, you can have your laptop sitting on your, you can have your laptop sitting on your desk and it –
JOYCE: You agree with me, you are looking at it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Barnaby, of course our security agencies –
JOYCE: There you go. We're all looking at it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Of course our security agencies need to know.
JOYCE: First heard it on Seven, we're all looking at it.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That you can put your computer on your – it'd be really nice if I could finish a sentence. You can put your laptop sitting on your desk, it can be accessed remotely, the camera can be turned on, the microphone can be turned on. That's why we're investing $600 million in our Cyber Security Strategy. We have to be confident that we can withstand the sort of remote accessing, the potential spying that can go on. And Nat, I have to say again, there are computers in everything now. That's why it's so important that our security agencies are really on top of this and that's why we take their advice so seriously.
BARR: Exactly. Barnaby, Tanya's right. There are computers that would be made in China in all sorts of items. Do you want to ban everything that's coming out of China? Why just electric vehicles?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: He’d have to give up his mobile phone if that's the case.
JOYCE: I haven't said – now it's my turn, actually, Tanya. I haven't said ban things I've said, making sure that we are precautionary, make sure that we're diligent, make sure we have oversight. Now, you've heard it first on Sunrise, that obviously the Labor Party are looking at it as well. So, we have a unity ticket here. We have people making sure, in the advice of ASIO, people such as Mike Burgess –
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We're not proposing to ban cars.
JOYCE: Which they kicked off the security, the National Security Committee. I don't know what the National Security Committee does when it doesn't have ASIO and ASIS there. Now they put them back on, they realise they did the wrong thing and we've got to do that. It is absolutely – a malevolent force, let's not say Chinese, but a malevolent force has capacity to turn on your computer, turn on your camera, watch you working away, go into your phone, and of course they can do that. They can also go into your car, they can go into your hot water system. And to say that this code, they can plant the code, that means they have the capacity to access it later on. And we've got to be aware of this. And the Coalition, I think, in the last budget, put $10 billion towards cyber security, that we don't put that sort of money towards something. If we don't believe that there's an issue.
BARR: Just one last –
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Why do you only want to ban cars, then?
JOYCE: Well, see, I think you should talk to ASIO and ASIS and go back through what I said, Tanya. It's not about banning it. This is the sort of issues that we're dealing with. There's a lot of issues that I dealt with at the Guildford rugby league club last night, talking about Bowen. Just a complete disregard of the facts and a complete ambivalence by the Labor Party to the issues that are really pertinent to Australia.
BARR: But you want to look into it to see whether there's an issue like after the US ban –
JOYCE: Yeah, of course, absolutely, 100 per cent.
BARR: Okay, thank you very much. We'll see you next week. Thank you both.
