THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SUNRISE
MONDAY, 9 DECEMBER 2024
SUBJECTS: MELBOURNE SYNAGOGUE ATTACK, NUCLEAR POWER.
NATALIE BARR: Well, for their take on this story, let's bring in Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek and National MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to both of you. Tanya, you've just heard the former Treasurer there calling for a taskforce to solely look into antisemitic hate. Also a judicial inquiry. What do you make of that?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Well, the first thing I want to say, Nat, is that the attack on the Melbourne synagogue was truly shocking and I think every Australian would be appalled by what happened there. And I should also say it's received less attention, but The Great Synagogue in Sydney last week also had a protest outside the synagogue that was very frightening for the people who were trapped inside and frightened to leave. This sort of behaviour has no place in Australia. That's why we've increased security funding for religious institutions like synagogues now to $60 million, with a second lot of funding. We've appointed, as Josh Frydenberg said, a special envoy on antisemitism, Jillian Segal. It's why we put legislation into the Parliament to ban the Nazi salute and symbols. And that was successful in passing. But we've got two other lots of legislation that the Liberals and Nationals haven't supported. We've managed to get through our doxxing legislation, which is, as you know, the release of people's personal details. This happened to 600 people in a Jewish chat group. We wanted to ban doxxing and the Liberals and Nationals voted against that. And we want to ban hate speech and Peter Dutton is saying now that he won't vote against that. So, it's all very well to say the government should do more. Well, it would be much easier to do more if we actually had the support in the Parliament of Peter Dutton and the Liberals and Nationals.
BARR: OK, let's move on to nuclear power, because this is what people are worried about, how much they're paying out of their pocket every week. The costings on the Coalition's signature policy on nuclear expected to be released in the coming days. Barnaby, what more, what can you tell us about this?
BARNABY JOYCE: Well, I'm going to leave that to Peter or Ted, because that's their job, not mine. But what I can say is that it is – nuclear power is cheaper than going with intermittents. First of all, intermittents are the dearest and you just can rely on international studies for that. And more to the point, they just don't work. And if you believe they're working, have a look at your power bill. So, your power bill shows that intermittents, your swindle factories just physics denies them the capacity to be able to provide 82 per cent of your power. It's just nuts [indistinct].
BARR: Yeah, Barnaby, let's just drill down on that because the CSIRO says nuclear is still 50 per cent more than renewables. In some of their projections it says up to 300 per cent more. So, that's completely opposite to what you guys are saying.
JOYCE: I could, I could stay here all morning going through the CSIRO report, basically going through the issues in regards their sunk costs, where they've actually taken into account costs, the type of nuclear plant they're talking about, how they're talking about actually trying to achieve the Labor Party's goals. I mean, it's like saying if you can only walk, it's walking the fastest form of movement. Well, if you're only going to walk, I suppose that's all you're going to be judging it by. But –
BARR: Okay, so they talk about large scale plants and you're talking about the little ones, is that right?
JOYCE: No, we're talking about making sure we put forward the plants that are like the A1000s, the plants that they are rolling out in a form in the United Arab Emirates where you don't have to redesign the wheel that's already there. But let's just go this, because everyone's going, CSIRO is an Australian organisation. Australia does not have nuclear power, let's just start with that. And if CSIRO are right, then all these other countries in the world must be wrong. Finland must be wrong. United Arab Emirates must be wrong. Canada must be wrong. France must be wrong. America must be wrong. [Indistinct] must be wrong. India must be wrong. Pakistan must be wrong. [Indistinct]. Argentina must be wrong.
PLIBERSEK: Actually, Nat…
BARR: Well, America built most of theirs in the 60s and up to the 90s.
JOYCE: It's ridiculous.
PLIBERSEK: And Nat, what's interesting -
BARR: So, we want, we want our power bills down.
JOYCE: You certainly do. You certainly do.
BARR: So, we want to make sure it's going to actually power more than 4 per cent, which some of the studies say, and it's going to be cheaper. So, can you guys guarantee that?
JOYCE: I can absolutely guarantee you that nuclear is cheaper than what the path you are on with intermittent power is a [indistinct] –
PLIBERSEK: It's just not true.
JOYCE: It's not used anywhere else in the world. And don't believe anything but believe your power bill. Folks, believe your power bill. They are butchering your electricity grid and you'll be becoming poorer.
BARR: OK, Tanya. We'll find the costings this week. Tanya, last word because we've got to go.
PLIBERSEK: Well, we know Barnaby's just wrong on the cost. It's the most expensive. Nuclear is the most expensive form of power and it won't be available for 20 years.
JOYCE: CSIRO [indistinct] report on the Australian report.
PLIBERSEK: Every expert agrees with that. The only person who doesn't agree is Barnaby Joyce.
JOYCE: It's a government [indistinct] report. It's a government [indistinct] report for political purposes. That's what it is.
BARR: Barnaby, Barnaby, wait.
PLIBERSEK: What nonsense.
BARR: Let Tanya have one more word, then we're going.
PLIBERSEK: You know, more reactors have closed in recent years than have opened around the world. Germany and Italy getting rid of their nuclear power. It was 9.2 per cent of global energy, the lowest in 40 years. Because other countries are doing what we're doing, investing in cheaper, cleaner, renewable energy to bring down household and business power costs. We put $300 on the table for energy bill relief, and the Liberals and Nationals voted against it.
JOYCE: They want you to be like Germany, It's a debacle. Germany is [indistinct] manufacturing. They want you to be like Germany's power bill.
BARR: OK, right.
PLIBERSEK: The Liberals and Nationals voted against that bill relief. Always remember that they don't care about cheaper power.
JOYCE: Incredible. Incredible. Oh that's would've have fixed it. $235 that we never ever got. Which we never ever got.
BARR: You know what, we're going to leave it there.
PLIBERSEK: 300 bucks you voted against.
JOYCE: $235 [indistinct] your power bills have gone through the roof.
BARR: But folks at home, let's cut them off. Stop. [Indistinct]. Cut them off. This is going to be the power debate before the election. Welcome, folks. This is what we're after. And it's our job to work out whether we're going to have cheaper power. Wish me luck here.
END
