THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER

 

E&OE TRANSCRIPT

TELEVISION INTERVIEW

SUNRISE

MONDAY, 29 AUGUST 2022

 

SUBJECTS: FREE NURSING DEGREES IN VICTORIA; JOBS AND SKILLS SUMMIT; INDIGENOUS VOICE TO PARLIAMENT.

 

NATALIE BARR, HOST: Thanks, Kochie. The Victorian Government has promised free university degrees for nursing students in a bold bid to get more workers into the health system. More than 10,000 nurses and midwives who enrol in 2023 and 2024 will receive a scholarship of up to $9,000 while they study and a further $7,500 if they work in the Victorian public health service for two years, completely covering the cost of a degree. For their thoughts, I'm joined by Labor's Environment Minister, Tanya Plibersek, and Nationals MP, Barnaby Joyce. Tanya, let's start with you. What do you think of this move by Victoria? Should nursing degrees be free nationally?

 

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: Look, I think it's a great move from the Victorian Government and it shows the sort of big, bold measures that are necessary after the skills crisis that we now face in Australia. After cuts to TAFE and cuts to university, university becoming increasingly unaffordable under the previous government. We had more kids applying to go to university than there were places for them last year and this is the sort of move that we need to fix that. We also need to make sure that nurses who are already qualified have a way back into the system and that the workplaces that they're going into are flexible and supportive. I mean, nursing has been such a tough profession in recent years, not just in our hospitals but the nurses that work in aged care, and other settings. We need to make sure that we get new people into the system and that we make the jobs, the sort of jobs that people can work in for the whole of their career, that they don't burn out once they're there.

 

BARR: Barnaby, is this the reason they're not going into the nursing because of the cost of the degree, or is it because once they get into the nursing, they're not liking the conditions?

 

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, I'd leave that up to people to decide themselves, but, obviously, it's now a promise that has been backed by the opposition in Victoria. Look, when people say, "We'll make it free across the nation", you can do anything you like as long as you're willing to pay more taxes for it. Anything's possible if you want to work all of Monday, all of Tuesday and all of Wednesday. But what we do know is that maybe it's going to help the Labor Party federally to fulfil their broken promise about having a registered nurse in every aged‑care facility, which we know they can’t do, and if they enforce that policy we're going to be closing down aged‑care facilities. But, you know, I wish them all the best. The people in Victoria are going to have to find themselves $270 million to pay for the nurses, well okay. It's their business.

 

BARR: Yeah, Tanya, it's a big bold promise, Tanya, three months before a big state election. Some people, if they were cynical, would say that, too.

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, and we've had 10 years of skills shortages from the previous government. Nurses have been in short supply for a long time. Barnaby could have fixed this when he was in government, he didn't. So, of course, it's up to the Victorian State Government and other State Governments to look around for these sort of measures. But Barnaby's talking about taxes, right. When we see people go to TAFE or university, they're benefitting themselves for sure, but they're also benefiting the nation. They're investing in their own skills so that they can work for other people and that's particularly true of nurses. So, of course, putting some tax dollars into making sure we've got an adequate workforce of nurses here in Australia, that's the sort of thing I'd like to see taxes spent on, not the sort of waste we saw under the previous Government where they're paying $30 million for a block of land worth $3 million. I mean, the previous Government doubled the debt before COVID hit, so I think it's a bit rich for Barnaby to be complaining about funding to train nurses with that sort of spending record.

 

BARR: Tanya, when we talk —

 

JOYCE: First of all, it's a State Government —

 

BARR: Sorry, Barnaby.

 

JOYCE: It's a State Government policy and, you're dead right, I wasn't going to be cynical; it's just about a state election. They're a complete and utter train wreck, which is the health crisis in Victoria with ambulance ramping and this is, "Look somewhere else, look somewhere else." It's a cynical election ploy.

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: There's nursing shortages everywhere, Barnaby. There's nursing shortages everywhere, because you cut funding to universities.

 

JOYCE: Well, you're the Government.

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You made it too expensive to go —

 

JOYCE: You're the Government now. You're the Government now.

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yep. 

 

JOYCE: Are you going to make them free across the nation?

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That's why we've —

 

JOYCE: You are.

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That's why we're having a jobs summit —

 

JOYCE: You're going to make it free everywhere?

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: — in a few days' time because we need to address the skills shortages that we've been left with, and that means addressing what's happening in TAFE — what's happening in uni, attracting the right people.

 

JOYCE: So, you're going to make nursing free across Australia?

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: We're going to make sure, as Labor Government's always do that it's affordable to go to TAFE and university. We've been saying that for a long time, and the fact that you made it so difficult for young Australians to get an education.

 

JOYCE: Is that a yes?

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: — is the reason that we need to be talking now about more immigration, because you created this skills shortage, Barnaby.

 

JOYCE: Well, you're now the Government. You're now the Government. You can be bold. You can tell us now —

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, and that's why we're having a skills summit.

 

JOYCE: It's such a good idea in Victoria, are you going to make it free across the nation? Are you going to do that?

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: That's why we're having a skills summit to talk about the skills gap that you've left us, and that applies to nursing —

 

BARR: So that's a responsibility, Tanya —

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: — it applies to teaching.

 

BARR: — to expand this possibility.

 

JOYCE: It's a possibility.

 

BARR: — that Victoria is talking about across the nation; is that a possibility?

 

JOYCE: Sounds that way.

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I'm not going to pre‑empt anything that comes out of the skills summit, but what I'd say is that it's really important that TAFE and university are affordable.

 

JOYCE: Sounds like you might have.

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: And that young Australians who want to invest in their skills so they can get a great job actually and are able to afford to do so. And the fact that Barnaby's government left Australia with a university system that is unaffordable — —

 

JOYCE: Oh, come on!

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: — for ordinary kids and the TAFE system —

 

JOYCE: After the skills summit everything is going to be better.

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: — where you're closing TAFEs —

 

JOYCE: When they're all sitting on the floor —

 

BARR: Well, we certainly —

 

JOYCE: Kevin Rudd like!

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Please go ahead, Barnaby.

 

JOYCE: Reading their tablets, writing notes.

 

BARR: I don't think we're going to get agreement on that.

 

JOYCE: On their beanbags.

 

BARR: But it's a suggestion that is being —

 

JOYCE: It looks like you've opened the door on free nurses across Australia.

 

BARR: — supported in Victoria. Let's move on, shall we. Over the weekend Anthony Albanese met with basketball legend Shaquille O'Neal, who endorsed the Indigenous Voice to Parliament. Tanya, he kind of crashed the press conference. He wasn't anticipated to speak — towered over the PM. What did you think of the way this happened?

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I think Shaquille O'Neal has been a really strong voice for Black Lives Matter in the US and he wanted to make a few comments here in Australia. Good on him. I think it's a real sign that the referendum for constitutional recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in our Constitution is something that is important for Australians, but something that the world will be observing as well. I think it was a really exciting day, and I know that we had a few fans at home who were pretty excited to see Shaquille O'Neal was in Australia and the fact that he's talking about this is really great.

 

BARR: Yeah, Barnaby, there's been some criticism. I mean, he's a fantastic guy. He's a fantastic basketballer, but some criticism that an African‑American basketballer would be supporting this cause; what did you think?

 

JOYCE: I think I'm going to read Tanya's mind there. Actually, what you're thinking is: Prince Philip moment. Why are we having a multimillionaire, American basketball star — good luck, god bless him — over here to talk about how we run our Constitution?  Now, when we have other people in other parts of the world talking about our Constitution, it usually gets people's backs up in Australia. So, what we had there — I don't know how that one managed to get through. How they could possibly think that would do anything but just inspire people's cynicism. Like, what — are we selling McDonald's here or are we changing the Constitution? Why have we got an American basketball star standing at the podium about 10 feet taller than Anthony Albanese? I mean, what's this about? And all I could think of when I saw it, was: here's their Prince Philip moment. There it is. Bingo. Right there on the telly.

 

BARR: Tanya, Indigenous Coalition Senator, Jacinta Price, said it's a bit insulting to call on a black American to help with black Australians as if this is all about the colour of one's skin. What do you say to that?

 

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, she's absolutely entitled to her view of course. But I think it's not surprising that the world is looking at Australia at this really important moment in our history and saying wouldn't it be great if First Nations Australians were able to speak up about the policies that affect their lives with a constitutionally enshrined voice, and I think Shaquille O'Neal, he brings a lot of star power and a lot of attention to a very important issue.

 

BARR: Okay. We'll leave it there. Thank you both. See you next week.

 

JOYCE: Then why didn't you get Patty Mills? Why didn't you get Patty Mills?

 

BARR: Okay. Probably a good point. Thank you very much, we'll leave it there. Got some breaking news, here's Eddie.

 

END