THE HON TANYA PLIBERSEK MP

MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER

E&OE TRANSCRIPT

TELEVISION INTERVIEW

SUNRISE

MONDAY, 3 OCTOBER 2022

SUBJECTS: OPTUS DATA BREACH, METADATA LAWS, ASIO MISSION IN SYRIA.

NATALIE BARR, HOST: Well, pressure is building on Optus to release more information about its massive data breach after it was revealed that Services Australia still hadn't been told which Medicare numbers were compromised. The Home Affairs Minister has also flagged new cybersecurity legislation, saying the current laws have been absolutely useless in dealing with the matter. Joining me now are Labor's Environment Minister Tanya Plibersek and Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning to you. It's been 12 days since this data breach, as we know. Tanya, has the company given any reason why they haven't supplied any of this information yet?

TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WATER: No, I think one of the real problems is the lack of communication by Optus, both with its customers and with the government. It's extraordinary that we don't yet know any Medicare numbers or Centrelink numbers that may have been compromised. I think it's ironic too. I mean my daughter's an Optus customer and they managed to get her bill to her on time, but they still haven't told her whether her personal details have been subject to this release of data. I don't think the company is doing a particularly good job either with its customers or providing the government with the information we need to keep people safe.

BARR: Yeah, it's quite amazing, isn't it? Now Optus says it was legally required to keep the customer data from as far back as 2017 under Australia's metadata laws. Barnaby, these were passed while you were in government. Have they backfired here? This government is saying these laws have been useless.

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, we were supported in general in bringing in the metadata laws that was basically to deal with things such as terrorism. But what I have to say is that the breach of this was, so we hear, quite simple. That those in the know say it wasn't a very sophisticated way to get into the Optus information and therefore they have absolutely compromised capacity to do their job. Their duty of stewardship to their customers in protecting their privacy and the holding information for people who are no longer even clients, customers of theirs. And the question has to be asked as to why so lack? As Tanya said, they managed to get you your bill on time. Why can't they protect your privacy? Why can't they get back to people and say, we've got a real problem here, be careful this - because the next iteration of this of course, is criminals who get hold of that information can therefore go and set up a fake Natalie Barr account, get themselves a credit card and start spending, whooping it up on town.

BARR Yeah, people are already taking out loans in those people's names. And why would they - people who have forgotten they even had an Optus account years ago, they're caught up in it. It's a total mess. Look, a secret ASIO mission into Syria has cleared the way for the families of Islamic State members left behind in camps to be repatriated to Australia. The government is putting the final touches on the rescue plan to bring back 16 women and 42 children currently being held in a detention camp near the Iraqi border. Tanya, tell us why the government has launched this plan now.

MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I think the first thing to say is it's very important to take the advice of our security and intelligence agencies about whether this is safe and the circumstances under which it's safe. But we've got about 40 Australian kids living in one of the most dangerous places on Earth, in a refugee camp. Some of the women, some of the mothers were taken there as little more than children themselves and married off to IS fighters. Some of them tricked, some of them forced to go there. When they come back to Australia, I think it's going to be very important that the children in particular receive counselling. But I think for everybody involved, there will be an ongoing expectation that our security and intelligence agencies will stay in contact with them and monitor them. And I don't think that's going to come as any surprise to anyone.

BARR: Yeah, and they have all agreed to be monitored, all the adults. Barnaby, what's your view on this policy?

JOYCE: Well, I'm not surprised that they agreed to get out of Syria, but the question a lot of people ask is, for those who willingly went there, why did you go there in the first place? Why did you go and participate in a horrendous organisation, horrendous apparatus that just was indiscriminate in how they treated women, how they treated people, how they treat people of different faiths. Now, obviously, Australian kids should get the opportunity to get back to Australia, but this is going to cost Australians an awful lot of money. To monitor someone is - I know the amount, I don't know if I'm allowed to say. It's an awful lot of money per person per year. But the question is, we have to come down like a tonne of bricks on any person who decides they want to engage in a foreign fight. And for them, I don't know what the solution is, but the ramifications of these men who take these people overseas to engage in the arbitrary madness, which was ISIS, something needs to be done about that as well.

BARR: Yeah, that - good point, because the human suffering is just terrible, isn't it? Tanya and Barnaby, thank you for your time. We'll see you next week.

END