E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC SYDNEY
THURSDAY, 26 FEBRUARY 2026
TOPICS: Hate Crimes; national heritage listing of mardi gras route
HAMISH MACDONALD: And there is some pretty significant news this morning in relation to the historical parade route. The Federal MP for Sydney is Tanya Plibersek. A very good morning to you.
TANYA PLIBERSEK, MINISTER FOR SOCIAL SERVICES: It's great to be with you, Hamish.
MACDONALD: Yeah, I want to get to the heritage listing because that is some pretty significant news, but I imagine you've seen these stories now, or at least read about them. These hate crimes being perpetrated against young Sydney gay and bisexual men. What do you make of it?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, it's sickening and it's a reminder that, you know, Mardi Gras has become a great celebration in recent years, but it is still important to acknowledge the political and the cultural aspects of Mardi Gras. It's been a fight for almost 50 years for equality and safety and inclusion. And these most recent attacks show that the work is not yet done, that we need to, as a society, as a community, continue to assert that, you know, no matter what your gender, no matter what your sexuality, you are safe and you are included in our Australian community.
MACDONALD: Obviously, in the wake of the Bondi attacks, the government drew up new laws and Equality Australia at the time had warned that they didn't protect gay people or gay hate crimes in the same way that other sorts of hate were being dealt with. Was that a missed opportunity? Do you think it should have been included?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, well, it's not, it's not, actually right because the increased penalties for hate crimes apply to any protected group. So, if you experience hate crime because of your gender or sexuality, the maximum penalties for all of the crimes that are covered by those laws that we passed in January have been increased. I think it is important, though, to make sure that all of our laws are fit for purpose, whether that's at a Commonwealth or a state level. I was with the state Deputy Premier this morning, sorry, the leader in the upper house, Penny Sharpe, and she was talking about the fact that the New South Wales Government is also considering a stronger legislative response. And the other thing I think is really important, Hamish, is a lot of these young men are being lured into dangerous situations by dating apps. It's really important that the dating app companies take responsibility to make their apps safer as well. I mean, we've got voluntary codes--
MACDONALD: Should there be explicit penalties for those platforms then?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I don't want to speculate on how best to do it, but the dating apps have got voluntary codes that came in into action in April last year. If they're not strong enough, if they're not working to keep people safe, I think it's time for the apps to take greater responsibility for what role they can play to help keep people safe as well. So, I'm not, I'm not trying to point the finger at anybody. I'm saying that we as the Commonwealth government need to make sure we're doing our share, state government will need to make some changes, the dating apps could make some changes. Most of all, I mean, the people who engaging in this behaviour need to be called to account. And that means policing and it means our court and justice system coming into action. And, you know, where it's appropriate jailing people for these violent offences.
MACDONALD: Yeah, was it surprising to you, we heard from Sean Rubinsztein-Dunlop, the reporter who broke this story. He said that a 17-year-old who pleaded guilty to one of these horrific attacks actually walked free on probation. Does that demonstrate to you that there is an issue with the legislative framework?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Look, I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on individual cases without sort of sitting through the court case. You know, it's always difficult to know the ins and outs of it, but I would say these are extremely serious offences and they should be treated extremely seriously.
MACDONALD: Can I ask you a broader question, though? Because I know this is something you have thought about in depth over a long period of time, and without getting into the specifics of the new laws and the arguments around this, obviously, Equality Australia accused the government at the time of turning a blind eye to the rising levels of hate and violence against queer Australians. But we know there is this sort of tension whenever laws are discussed around religious freedom and, you know, the need to protect some of these other groups. And whether we're talking about radical Islam or other faiths, there are many religious texts which are very explicit in denigrating, diminishing gay people, gay sex. And this is, obviously there are instances where that is taken very literally by people that preach a sort of extremist version of a faith. How do you think we get this right in a world in a context where we're sort of trying to grapple with the power of words and the links between words and violence?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So, a couple of things I'd say about that. The first thing I'd say is there are plenty of people in every religion who are motivated by love and inclusion and are not judgmental, they are loving people. So, you can't generalise about, you know, the role that religion plays in attacks like this--
MACDONALD: Which is why I'm specifically talking about the texts. I think the texts are where this obviously originates.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So, I got halfway through my answer, if you let me finish. The second part of my answer is that religious freedom is about the freedom to practice your religion. It's not the freedom to impose your religion on others. I don't see it at all as complex. If you are guided by your religious text not to be gay, that's a decision for you. It's not your right ever to impose that on anyone else. And that applies to any religion and to any expression of a religion. Live by it as, you know, with as much fidelity as you like as an individual. Don't think that you've got the right to make other people live by the same rules. Simple.
MACDONALD: But it becomes more complicated, right, when we talk about legal frameworks. And that's sort of the pressure point, isn't it? I mean, you've had to canvass these issues time and time again during your years in politics.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah. I think you and sometimes others make it more complex than it is. Legal frameworks should give protection to people who want to practice their religion, that the protection doesn't extend to imposing your religion on other people.
MACDONALD: Tanya Plibersek is here, the member for Sydney. The announcement that you're making this morning relates to a national heritage listing for the original Sydney Mardi Gras parade route. What is that precisely and what does the listing mean?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, today's a really great celebration of listing the Mardi Gras route. A few years ago, when I was the heritage minister, I said to the Heritage Council, we need to go beyond protecting, you know, convict buildings and wrought iron. We actually have to acknowledge and celebrate the things that make us uniquely Australian. And, you know, they are things like the eight hour day, the living wage, votes for women, the struggle of First Nations Australians for equality before the law. And this example of the Mardi Gras route was a really great example of a fight for equality that is really meaningful, that has changed our country quite fundamentally. So, we're listing the original route and then the newer route from Oxford Street onto the entertainment quarter, the second part of the route as well. It doesn't do anything for the businesses along the route, I should say that at the beginning, it doesn't sort of prevent them, you know, their opening hours or anything like that. It does mean that if something, some big change was proposed for the physical sort of location, the roads predominantly, and the open spaces along the way, that change would need to be evaluated against our heritage and environment laws. But the best and most important value of it is the elevation of the intangible heritage that comes along with the route. It's the struggle of the 78ers, those people who marched for the first time in 1978 and were locked up in police cells, bashed by the police, outed on the front page of newspapers. Many of them lost their jobs, they were ostracised by family and friends because of the courage they exhibited in marching, demanding equality for the GLBTIQ community at that time. The listing also reminds us, in the face of the reports that you're talking about this morning, the disturbing attacks on gay and bisexual men, that this work is not yet done, that that struggle from 50 years ago is alive today, and that all of us, by acknowledging that, actually say our mainstream Australian values are that everyone is equal before the law, everyone deserves to be safe and included.
MACDONALD: Tanya, are you going to the Mardi Gras on Saturday night? Are you marching? What are we, are we costuming? What's involved?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, I'm definitely marching. I think this, I've kind of lost count, Hamish, but I think this is about my 30th march and--
MACDONALD: You'll need to be heritage listed soon.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Thanks for that.
MACDONALD: I say that with respect, Minister.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. Someone can push me along. I did, actually, the Dykes on Bikes were at the at the announcement that we made this morning and I did put in a bid to ride along one year. So, maybe I can get a double if the route's too long for me, I can get a double on the back of--
MACDONALD: They call that that dinking, is that what is? So, listen, we're talking Mardi Gras bangers later this morning. Ce Benedict’s dropping by, as always, on a Thursday. This week we're talking music of the rainbow variety. Your number one choice, please, for your favourite Mardi Gras banger. I mean, you can have two if you want, because I know your office has struggled with this.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I really couldn't decide between Born This Way and Believe. But I think, given you've pointed out I'm a maturing lady, maybe I should go with Believe.
MACDONALD: I didn't point that out.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Cher’s a great - I heard you Hamish, I heard you and everybody else heard you too, but Cher’s an icon, an icon for, you know, ageing disgracefully, which I love.
MACDONALD: Tanya Plibersek, appreciate your time. It's good to talk to you.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Thanks, Hamish.
Ends
