TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR EDUCATION
SHADOW MINISTER FOR WOMEN
MEMBER FOR SYDNEY
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH ALAN JONES
THURSDAY, 14 OCTOBER 2021
SUBJECTS: Vaccination passports; JobKeeper; Impact of Covid-19 on young people.
ALAN JONES, HOST: Let's go to our federal panel, you know them well, two very talented women. Concetta Fierravanti-Wells, a Liberal Senator and Tanya Plibersek who strikes fear into the other side. Ladies, I don't want to spend a lot of, thank you by the way, I don't spend a lot of time on this, but I suppose it is in my nature to feel sorry a bit for people who are rejected. Should your shopkeeper, your small businessperson be a policeman over vaccination? Now, the Prime Minister said vaccination is not mandatory and there'll be no vaccine passport, but people are emailing me saying they are not allowed to shop without the vaccine certificate. Tanya, your views. Where are we on this?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, SHADOW MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SHADOW MINISTER FOR WOMEN: Well Alan, I think it is a little hard on small businesses to be asked to be the gatekeepers on this, especially if there's not a lot of clear instruction from the federal government around the rules, but what I would say is the vast majority of Australians are happily rolling up their sleeves, getting the jab and we should thank them for that. And those of them who have, it's pretty easy - if you can't show the little downloaded vaccine certificate on your phone - you can get a card to show and I would urge people to do that and just do it without being asked. Make life easier for those small businesses.
JONES: Tanya, I agree but as you know, we'll never, ever on anything get 100 per cent. I'm just concerned that we don't create another category of citizens who are abandoned. I'll come to that in a moment in relation to education. I mean, Concetta, how do you square up to the fact that the Prime Minister says is not mandatory, but people are vilified if they don't have the double vax?
SENATOR CONCETTA FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: This may be the theory, but I think the reality has become medical apartheid and regrettably the clearest made pronouncements of National Cabinet have resulted in a lot of confusion and uncertainty. Yes, Alan there are legal complexities, but the default position seems to be to hide behind the state health orders and to ban people who are not vaccinated.
JONES: Yes, that's right. So Tanya, I feel sorry for the retailer. They are emailing me and I won't go on with this but saying, ‘I won't open, I won't, this is sad, because I can't be a policeman separating the vaccinated from the unvaccinated’. You may just point-
PLIBERSEK: I was just going to say Alan, on the other hand, a lot of businesses are saying to me, ‘I want to protect my staff, I don't want them to get Covid because if I have to shut down again because half my staff were off sick, or all of my staff are off sick that's a disaster for my business’. Australians are really good at accepting that rights come with responsibilities and you have freedoms but when you exercise those freedoms, there are consequences.
JONES: Okay, well what do we say then to this? I mean the University of New South Wales, the University of Technology Sydney, the University of Sydney will reportedly make vaccination mandatory for students to return to campus. So Tanya, just taking that point. I just want to say, does this mean that some young people will be banished from study if they're not vaccinated?
PLIBERSEK: Well they'll keep studying online, which is not the same. It's not as good an experience, they'll miss out on the friendships and social networks, and so on, but equally if you've got 10,000 kids on campus and you have to close down for two weeks because you've got a massive Covid outbreak raging through the student population, that has serious consequences for the institution. So, I certainly think what would be most helpful now is a bit more guidance from the federal government, a bit more consistency-
JONES: It can't be left to these people. Concetta, the University of New South Wales are saying from this week, only students who are fully vaccinated or have a medical exemption will be allowed on campus. Now, that must be a library full of legislation against discrimination. Is it legitimate for a person to express in a free society concern about what goes into his or her body?
FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Precisely Alan and this is the reason why we are seeing a growing number of legal challenges to the mandating of vaccinations and passports. This is, Alan, against the background of growing medical evidence which is emerging that even if you are vaccinated, you can still get Covid and you can still pass it on. And so what we are seeing, whether it's universities or other entities, businesses, they’re hiding behind the fine print of these state health orders or employment contracts or industrial instruments and imposing medical apartheid.
JONES: Yeah. Look, Tanya, made this point, I made the point, you made it Concetta. The national government has got to give guidelines to this. So everyone will say, ‘oh it's not mandatory and we won't have passports and just do your best out there separating the vaccinated from the unvaccinated’. Let me just come to something else here. Concetta, JobKeeper has cost the taxpayer $89 billion, a program with considerable merit, but research commissioned by the Labor Party and supported by the Parliamentary Budget Office shows almost $20 billion went to businesses which enjoyed an increase in turnover while receiving JobKeeper assistance. Now, the business simply had to have a reasonable expectation of, I think it was 30 to 50 per cent fall in turnover, you know, in either a month or a quarter compared to the same period in 2019. Now Treasury seem to be saying that businesses adjusted their operations, Treasury’s words, to qualify for the second phase. This is taxpayer’s money. Concetta?
FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: No doubt that JobKeeper was a lifeline that helped keep businesses operating and millions of Australians in jobs. However, there has been criticism that in the haste to rollout the scheme, the necessary checks and balances were not put in place and most notably the failure to stipulate these clawback provisions that would legally require unqualified recipients to pay the money back. Now we've seen that under - following media pressure, some of these companies have repaid the money, but many have not.
JONES: Well Tanya, where do you stand on this? I mean, this is to the people viewing us tonight, this is a lot of money. I mean the Parliamentary Budget Office, forget the Labor Party, looked at payments up to the end of JobKeeper in March and the total showed $19.7 billion went to 488,000 businesses that had higher revenue.
PLIBERSEK: I think this is a real disgrace actually Alan. I'm a big supporter of JobKeeper for the businesses that needed it to keep people employed, to keep them connected to work, of course I support that, that was critical. But for businesses that didn't need it, that just took it as a windfall, to rack up almost $20 billion in extra spending, I think that is just disgraceful.
JONES: I agree.
PLIBERSEK: And the fact that Josh Frydenberg was warned about this last year, he did nothing. A heap of this money has gone offshore, it's gone to overseas shareholders of businesses in increased dividends - one CEO gave himself a $1.3 million bonus after getting JobKeeper for the company. Another guy bought a $6 million mansion. Some of these companies have had their most successful year on record and you're talking about almost $20 billion.
JONES: $20 billion.
PLIBERSEK: $1 billion is what Pfizer asked the federal government for to vaccinate every adult Australian with Pfizer, and the federal government said, ‘no, we can't afford it. That's too much’. Well you see where the money's gone. You see where the waste is.
JONES: We always run out of time. I'd love to talk to you for an hour but I wanted to raise this before we go. To you first Concetta, Tanya will be feeling very flattered tonight, but I have already congratulated her on outstanding piece of writing and something I really believe in Tanya on young people during Coronavirus and I bring this up because this is one of the unstated tragedies of the response to Coronavirus. Tanya Plibersek wrote a week ago, ‘While the past 18 months have placed enormous stress on all of us, young people have experienced a unique loss in the pandemic years. They've been robbed of some of the greatest joys of growing up, the kind of fun times the rest of us look back on with fondness.’ Concetta, do you agree that we adults have a lot to answer for in terms of what we've done to young people, joys we've denied them will never return?
FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: I think one of the most lasting impacts of Covid will be on our young people and regrettably those that made decisions regarding lockdowns and school attendances, I think failed to fully comprehend the long-term damage that their decisions would wrought on children and teenagers. And we know the damage has been across all ages and therefore, I think it requires a response at all levels of government particularly as we deal with issues like teen suicide and academic performance.
JONES: Yes. Tanya, we always run out of time. Could I just say this because I want to take this up with both of you next week. A big issue. Shouldn't it be possible for the Labor Party and the Coalition to come together and say, listen post-Coronavirus, this has got to be one of the biggest priorities, trying to repair this damage. Don't you think this should go to top, the top of the Cabinet agenda?
PLIBERSEK: Yes. Yes, and let's give those kids some hope. Let's give them the hope of a TAFE place, an apprenticeship, a university place, a job when they finish school. Those younger kids, let's make sure that they haven't missed out on the building blocks of learning. Let's help them with their social and emotional well-being, as well. I mean, they've missed out on reading, writing, maths, science, all the rest of it, but they've missed their friends, they’ve missed forming those relationships. We need to give them hope.
JONES: I agree. Look, we'll return to that next week. Thank you both for your time. Very grateful.
FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Thanks Alan.
JONES: That last thing is really important. The devastation that has been caused to young people.
ENDS
