TANYA PLIBERSEK MP
SHADOW MINISTER FOR EDUCATION
SHADOW MINISTER FOR WOMEN
MEMBER FOR SYDNEY
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS WITH ALAN JONES
THURSDAY, 21 OCTOBER 2021
SUBJECTS: Afghan interpreters persecuted by Taliban.
ALAN JONES, HOST: All right, let's go to this Federal panel and I think we are very lucky to hear each week from two gifted female politicians - from the Liberal Party, Concetta Fierravanti-Wells and from the Labor Party, Tanya Plibersek. Each on top of their brief, coming at things from a different political standpoint, but doing it in a civilized, informative way. Now, this is a bit tangential to what I was just discussing with Catherine McGregor, I want to start tonight though, with a very disturbing story. Tanya Plibersek delivered a speech in the House of Representatives yesterday and I've been on about this with Peter Dutton this week, and for months and months - a former Afghan army officer being executed by the Taliban. He previously worked as an interpreter for the Australian Defence Force. I think the speech from Tanya Plibersek deserves to be heard by us all, here it is in its entirety from the Parliament yesterday.
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JONES: Tanya Plibersek, can I just say that is a magnificent statement. And can I just say, and I don't mean to embarrass you, but I have to say this delivered by a woman whose own brother was murdered. Tanya, does the Government have no shame about this? I've been arguing about the urgent need to support these post Kabul, who supported us. We just don't seem to be getting anywhere at all, Tanya?
TANYA PLIBERSEK, SHADOW MINISTER FOR EDUCATION, SHADOW MINISTER FOR WOMEN: It's so frustratingly slow, Alan. I know that you've been talking about this for months, so have I, so has the Labor Opposition. And more importantly, so have our veterans who - I spoke to Heston Russell yesterday, I know someone you've interviewed in the past Alan, about what this means for Australian veterans who served in Afghanistan, the pain that it causes them to think about their mates that they left behind and to wonder what happens next? When we are serving again overseas in areas of conflict in danger, who is going to help our soldiers then? If this is how we treat -
JONES: That's an excellent point. That's the big point. Concetta are we getting anywhere? Now, Tanya has said that, this man worked on behalf of our nation and the process to protect these people, her words, has lacked urgency and begun well after it should have, too little too late. What are your thoughts, Concetta?
SENATOR CONCETTA FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Well from the outset I'm on the record as having pointed out the madness of the extraction from Kabul Airport, after the US and Australian forces had withdrawn. I, and many others, and I know Heston and other people, find it very stressful to witness these events now playing out as it was inevitable, given the failed extraction from Kabul. And I expect however, Alan and this is the sad part, that the 24-hour news and media and marketing cycle is going to aid and abet those responsible because people forget, the caravan moves on and those responsible will not be held to account.
JONES: Absolutely. But Concetta, to the second point which is a point of your philosophical strength, when Tanya said, and this is really a bullet point, at some point in the future our soldiers will again be involved in conflict and when that happens they'll need to work with local security, local interpreters, and local intelligence - and then if we fail our allies today, who will be our allies tomorrow? Concetta, this is a major national issue, surely?
FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Well, Alan, it reinforces what former Prime Minister Howard said back in July, that we had a moral obligation to provide asylum and that the fate of the Afghanis should not be decided on narrow legalism. He went on to talk about Vietnam and that he did not want to see a repetition of that failure in relation to Afghanistan. And sadly, I think what we have seen is a repetition of that failure, which will reflect on our credibility in the future.
JONES: Absolutely. Tanya, I played on this program last week extracts of your Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Penny Wong trying to get answers at the Senate Inquiry into this whole farce in Afghanistan after the embassy closed. I want our viewers to listen to this again, and I'd like you both ladies to comment. The person that you refer to in that speech was a former Afghan army officer who worked for us and his family are still there awaiting the same treatment, execution it's called. Penny Wong asked last week in that Senate inquiry about people who are employed in the embassy and employed by third parties, contracted to the embassy. She wanted to know if Australian officials, the Blazer Brigade, if they knew how many such people, not Australians, but people who worked for us, because if they worked for us they were left behind. As I said last week, they'd be slaughtered. Now, we've got the story today, listen to the response that Penny Wong received and you'll see all those starched shirt people sitting around the table and they can't answer. Listen to this:
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JONES: Well, Tanya, I mean that’s your colleague, your comments there. That's not justice. The pregnant pauses. They've got no answers to fundamental issues. Tanya?
PLIBERSEK: I don't know if they don't know, or they won't say, but either is unacceptable. We've been told there's about 280 Australians and Australian permanent residents still stuck in Afghanistan. But the Government refuses to release information about others who have helped us, who are applying for visas.
JONES: Yes.
PLIBERSEK: The family of this man who was murdered have tried to get assistance from -
JONES: Since August. Since August.
PLIBERSEK: They reported from - and they've asked for help from people who served side by side with him, so they can talk about the role that he played with them, and they've been stonewalled at every turn. It's just not acceptable. It’s just not acceptable.
JONES: It’s appalling. Concetta, what do you make of this? I mean, do they - to pick up that last point of Tanya's - now the family of this man has been assassinated, the family fear that there are other members of that family, his wife and others, who are at risk. So they wanted to say, I can guarantee there are two soldiers over there, whom he knows, whom he worked with, and they'll guarantee that that's part of the family. Could we have contact? No, no, no, we can't breach confidentiality. Concetta, what do you make of Penny Wong's total inability to get an answer of any kind from these people. How many locally engaged employees were there? In other words, people were employed by the Embassy and were contracted to work, and by working for the Embassy they were Taliban enemies. Concetta, just listen to Senator Wong again.
AUDIO
JONES: That bloke at the end of the table is General Campbell. She's simply saying ‘could you please tell us how many people that worked for us are still there?’ Not an answer, pauses, impregnated and jargon. Concetta?
FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: Well, Alan I was present at the hearing, I was engaged in it remotely. I can't believe that thIs basic information was not kept and also not kept updated. I think this whole debacle, regrettably, smacks of a combined level of incompetence across the different levels of government -
JONES: Definitely.
FIERRAVANTI-WELLS: But it goes back to the point that I made earlier, the madness of extraction out of Kabul after the US and the Australian forces were withdrawn. And of course, going to figures, we do know, however, we did get some figures that there are 26,000 applications involving about a hundred thousand people, of which some are in country and some are outside, some that do have connection to Australia. But of course, despite the assurances by immigration that more work teams will be put onto this, I suspect it's going to be a very long and laborious process.
JONES: They've still got their jobs. Concetta does someone in Defence understand the Taliban doesn't differentiate between those who worked inside the embassy and those who worked outside? I mean, the Government should know how many of these interpreters and guards are left behind. The Government had a contract with their employers. I'm advised there are hundreds of them, and you've made that point they were our allies - if we fail our allies today, who will be our allies tomorrow? Now you've made this final point here, and I've said this before but I've got to say it again. The poor man's wife and children, as you've said, are hiding in Afghanistan - that Sydney-based lawyer representing the family has been in touch with the assassinated interpreter's sister, and has said they've been trying to get visas to come with the family to come to Australia to be rescued. I mean, with Tiananmen Square, Bob Hawke said we'll look after you, bring them. Tanya I don't know, you're a powerful political figure, where do we go?
PLIBERSEK: Well, Alan think about what it's like to be a single woman in Afghanistan at the moment trying to raise your family and your husband's been murdered, and what's likely to happen -
JONES: Well think about being the daughters, the daughters. Concetta this family applied for humanitarian visa on August 26, today's October 21. They followed up with the Immigration Department on several occasions to try to expedite the visa process. This is a family of an interpreter who was on the Taliban kill list and was murdered for his connection to the Australian Army. Shouldn't someone, Concetta, be sacked? I mean, because of these ridiculous delays, and we're sending a message to the world that we'll ask people to help us, but when they want help we go missing. Concetta?
FIERRAVANTI- WELLS: Well Alan. It's the point that I made earlier. What we're facing now, a lot of this was preventable. We knew there was a decision to pull out, former President Trump set it out - first you bring out the citizens, then you bring out the equipment, then you disable the bases and then you pull out the military. So we knew this, we knew it was coming. And now of course, we have this circumstance where we've got thousands of applications. And what you're saying Alan, is just one of the myriad which are going to come on top of the applications that are already existing under our humanitarian program. Alan, the bells are ringing now, so I do have to leave to go to a division.
JONES: Final question - you go Concetta. I just have a final question to Tanya, which we've already alluded to, and Tanya I'm not being melodramatic here. But this assassinated man has young daughters. The Taliban can turn them into their brides and kill the son if they find him. And as I said earlier, I can't help but feel that Bob Hawke did it after Tiananmen Square, he would have provided a home immediately here. Your final thoughts?
PLIBERSEK: Well, I think the reporting says that the son is 19 years old. I don't doubt that he would experience the same fate as his father. And I think when we talk about Taliban brides, this really is a euphemism for women who will be kept in sexual slavery by people who have no respect, no respect for them. Bride is a euphemism. We know what that really means.
JONES: Well, the important thing is, we can't afford to give up. I just can't believe any of this. Thank you for your time, to both of you and we'll talk again next week. Tanya Plibersek, Concetta had to go to a division. We’ll be back after the break to wrap it all up.
ENDS
