NATALIE BARR: For their take, let's bring in Social Services Minister Tanya Plibersek and One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce. Good morning. So, Barnaby, Pauline says it's 130,000. David Farley says it's 130,000 plus another hundred. Which is it?
BARNABY JOYCE: Well, it's 130 net. We've been saying that all. It's 130 net if you're in Australia for 12 months or less out of 16, a lot of visa holders are, that's not included in the NOM. So, but that's, you know, when no one's arguing about PALM workers. But it is not. It is 130,000. We've been saying it all along. It's 130,000. It's 130,000. It's 130,000 net overseas migration. And sometimes, you know, things like NOM, it's an acronym. You've got to get it right. It's a bit like the TILGD , which is a trillion in Labor government debt. That's another number you just can't get wrong. Trillion in Labor government debt. It's a very important number.
BARR: Okay, so the permanent migration, what would that be?
JOYCE: Well, the permanent migration, what we have is within that 130,000 is, you got, that is your net overseas migration. So, if there's permanent migration, it fits within that number. That's why it's called the net.
BARR: Ok. Because there are two separate figures at the moment. We've got, from what I understand, and Tanya would know more, 180,000, 85,000 permanent. And then we've got an aim of about 225. So, you're saying your total would be 130.
JOYCE: It's 130,000 net. That means if you take the people coming and the people going away and the difference is 130,000 on the positive side.
BARR: And no permanent.
JOYCE: Well, that includes your permanent. That's why it's net overseas migration.
BARR: Okay, so he was just wrong saying there'd be an extra hundred.
JOYCE: There's not going to be an extra 100 on top of that. No.
BARR: Okay, so he just misspoke.
JOYCE: Yeah, well, I mean, that's not unusual. Show me a political career where people haven't made, you know, made a mistake and I'll show you a person who's not told the truth.
BARR: Yeah, and we understand that. We're just clarifying. Have you. And you've picked up the phone and said, mate, that's not right?
JOYCE: We've certainly, well, look, I'm not going to throw anybody under a bus. When people are new in Parliament, they can sometimes get things incorrect and that's, that's what happens. God knows I've done it enough.
BARR: Yep, exactly. We all do.
JOYCE: I'm sure Tanya has and I'm sure Jim Chalmers is doing it right now with a trillion in Labor government debt, very important number. Trillion in Labor government debt.
BARR: Exactly. And everywhere, everyone's just clarifying. Tanya. So, your target is 225,000 net overseas migration. Does that include skilled workers on visa schemes that David Farley was talking about or is that number also on top of your target?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, about 70 per cent of that number is skilled visa holders and a lot of them are already onshore. So, we're converting people who are already here doing that work into visa holders. So, we're not actually bringing new people into the country for a big part of that. But let me tell you a few things about migration. You know, if there's three One Nation MPs in a room, there's three different immigration policies. What you know about us is we've brought migration down by 45 per cent since coming to government.
JOYCE: We don't have three One Nation MPs, there's only two senators get the numbers right. The other's a senator. You've got that number wrong right at the very start [inaudible].
BARR: Hang on Barnaby, let’s just let Tanya get her point out.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: You really got me with that one. So, here's a few things. You know, we've brought migration down by 45 per cent since coming to government. The two highest years of visas issued were both 9 million and I think Barnaby was Deputy Prime Minister for those ones. And yeah, we do need some skilled migrants in this country. We need to train Australians for those jobs too. That's why we've increased the number of GP places. That's why we've introduced free TAFE. But in the meanwhile, it's interesting, I'd be interested to know from Barnaby which rural doctors he doesn't want here, which aged care workers that work in nursing homes in his electorate, which people in the building industry or the people who work in abattoirs.
JOYCE: [inaudible]
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Barnaby's saying that, that agricultural workers are all temporary and under that one-year cap, there's plenty of them who are here for four years working in abattoirs, for example, or fruit picking, doing a lot of jobs that it's pretty hard to get Australians to do, frankly. So, you know over to him about which jobs he doesn't want done in his electorate.
JOYCE: [inaudible] If I get chance.
BARR: Okay, Barnaby, because Pauline Hanson says some businesses will have to do without migrants. Can you answer that one?
JOYCE: Well, a lot of the what Tanya brought up there is she proposing that we are going to bring in whatever she's got 225 she's going to bring in 225,000 doctors, is she? Or 225,000 fruit pickers? Or 225,000 abattoir workers. It's a very small portion of the number that come into Australia. And we will still have things such as a PALM scheme. And if, as I've said, if you're here for less than 12 months of 16 months, it's not part of the net overseas migration numbers. Everyone agrees with that. The Australian Bureau of Statistics agrees with that. So, these, a small portion of the numbers is what Tanya always refers to. I mean, how many doctors, Tanya, do come into regional areas? Seeing you're the government and I'm the opposition. How many come in, Tanya? 20,000? 30,000? How many come in?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: So, I think what's interesting about what Barnaby just said Nat is that--
JOYCE: [inaudible] How many doctors are coming in?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: it’s 130,000 plus. 130,000 plus.
JOYCE: 130,000 doctors are coming into regional areas.
BARR: Hang on a sec. Hang on a sec, Barnaby. We'll let you answer, Tanya.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: Well, we know that a lot of regional areas depend on overseas doctors. And we also know that it's important to train more Australians. That's why we've increased the number of GP training places.
JOYCE: The reason I bring this up is because you're mischievous. So, you're talking that we don't want doctors. We've said 130,000 people net is what we're prepared to bring in. You, sort of assuming that that's not enough. So, how many doctors actually come in, Tanya? Because apparently we'll be bereft of doctors. So, how many doctors come in each year?
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I haven't just talked about doctors, Barnaby. I've talked about people who work in nursing homes. I've talked about people who work in abattoirs.
JOYCE: Let's start.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: People who work on our building sites. And people who pick fruit.
JOYCE: How many aged care nurses come in each year? When aged care nurses come in--
BARR: We might have to leave it there because we're running out.
MINISTER PLIBERSEK: I think you'll find there's a lot of aged care nurses.
JOYCE: No. Yeah, I think you don't know. They weren't on your talking points.
BARR: Okay, we will leave it there. We have to go. We're running into the news. Thank you very much. We'll see you next week.
ENDS
